It all begins and ends in your mind.

@fmf said
“It all begins and ends in your mind. What you give power to, has power over you, if you allow it.” What I am interested in is where "it" and "what" refers to adherence to or feeling bound to certain beliefs.

So you are suggesting that the solution to hunger is not being hungry in your mind?

The solution to not having a car is to have a car in your mind...?

The solution to being handcuffed is to not be handcuffed in your mind?

@philokalia said
It can be your sickness, or your hunger, or your poverty, or the fact that you have to work 40 hours a week to survive, or the fact that you need a car to get into the city, or the fact that your mother died of cancer when you were 9 and you have been emotionally shook up to some degree ever since, never fully recovering from the heartbreak...

Not everyone is going to have the mental strength to rise above these things, sure. Not everyone is going to be able to resist the power that certain beliefs hold over them. But mental strength is what is needed. If a Muslim wants to unhook himself from his religious beliefs, and maybe adopt different ones, it is a matter of the "mind", not "cancer" or "steel handcuffs". “It all begins and ends in your mind. What you give power to, has power over you, if you allow it.” "What you give power to" can and often does include what is alleged to be immutable by way of calling it "reality".

@philokalia said
The solution to not having a car is to have a car in your mind...?

The solution to being handcuffed is to not be handcuffed in your mind?

I am interested in how this OP quote applies to ideology and religious belief. I am not interested in talking about "not having a car" or "being handcuffed".

@philokalia said
So you are suggesting that the solution to hunger is not being hungry in your mind?

Where did I suggest this?

@fmf said
“It all begins and ends in your mind. What you give power to, has power over you, if you allow it.” Leon Brown

Your thoughts on this?

I think not, we do not dictate our outcomes we work towards them and have to
settle for what happens. We do go through life, and life happens in ways we do not
grasp, things we like, things we do not like. We respond, and our response I think
are not always brought about what on what we think as much as who we are. If
we are an honest man/woman and we find a wallet with ID and money in it we
return it, the same thing can happen to a dishonest person and they keep the
money. The thought processes are guided by more than what occurs in the brains
of either they are guided by who and what type of people they are.

For some they would be good if they had more, they would give to others if they
only had more. Others look at what they have and try to make a difference with
that, the brains in both look at the same info, the hearts of both guide them.

@kellyjay said
The thought processes are guided by more than what occurs in the brains
of either they are guided by who and what type of people they are.

So by what other part or parts of the body do you think thought processes are guided if not only the brain?

@fmf said
So by what other part or parts of the body do you think thought processes are guided if not only the brain?

Genesis 6:5
The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

@kellyjay said
Genesis 6:5
The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The heart is an organ that pumps blood around the body. It's used as a metaphor in poetry and literature but the things attributed or consigned to it are actually in or the product of the brain and the mind that it plays host to. There is no need to speak to me poetically about the mind. If you want to discuss what the heart does, you should do that on the Science Forum.

“It all begins and ends in your mind. What you give power to, has power over you, if you allow it.” Leon Brown

I do not have a choice -- I have to give power to my hunger, and I have to give power to my need to have money and to go to work.

That's why I disagree with this.

My mind just doesn't have control over everything and it doe snot determine reality.

@philokalia said
I do not have a choice -- I have to give power to my hunger, and I have to give power to my need to have money and to go to work.

Maybe someone will come along and talk to you about broken windows, hunger, the lack of a car, handcuffs etc.

@fmf said
The heart is an organ that pumps blood around the body. It's used as a metaphor in poetry and literature but the things attributed or consigned to it are actually in or the product of the brain and the mind that it plays host to. There is no need to speak to me poetically about the mind. If you want to discuss what the heart does, you should do that on the Science Forum.

Disingenous. You asked him a loaded question, knowing precisely what he would say, and then feigned indifference.

I'm frankly disappointed that this is all you could dredge up as a 'gotcha'.

@suzianne said
Disingenous. You asked him a loaded question, knowing precisely what he would say, and then feigned indifference..

KellyJay is not the only Christian here who believes that some of the functionality of the mind actually does take place in the heart, even though talking about the heart as the source or holder of strong beliefs and emotions is so obviously a metaphor. SecondSon is another one. And Romans1009 believed it too and talked about it to me seriously before he started all the creepy stuff that got him banned from the site. I am sure there are others too. It's come up a few times.

While people can believe what they want, I think the disingenuousness is not mine but theirs if they think they can claim that profound thoughts and beliefs reside in the organ that pumps blood rather than in the brain. So it wasn't a "loaded question" at all. It was a straight question. And it got a straight answer from KellyJay, by way of a copy pasted Bible verse.

@suzianne said
I'm frankly disappointed that this is all you could dredge up as a 'gotcha'.

Attributing strong religious beliefs to the wrong organ in our bodies ~ as if that creates some sort of mystique or exceptionalism about such beliefs ~ is a rhetorical gimmick.

@suzianne said
Disingenuous.

This is disingenuous: "The thought processes are guided by more than what occurs in the brains of either they are guided by who and what type of people they are."

Who and what type of people we are, and how we perceive each other and why, is all a function of the brain. Every single last little bit of it. Not some other part of the body. Not the "heart".