20 Oct 18
@fmf saidSo the quote is about a more specific context.
Maybe someone will come along and talk to you about broken windows, hunger, the lack of a car, handcuffs etc.
Like...
"You are not a slave to your petty emotions and desires. You can transcend the petty, and be your true master, always exerting your true self and not being subject to your whims."
Right?
Like, it's the right context, and the right message, because obviously it is not a petty emotion to think "I wish I wasn't a handcuffed prisoner," or, "I wish I wasn't starving," etc.
With t his, we can keep reality, and we can also empower our mind over the petty parts of the mind that we otherwise have.
I think that's a better idea.
@philokalia saidSorry, I am not really interested in what you are talking about.
So the quote is about a more specific context.
Like...
"You are not a slave to your petty emotions and desires. You can transcend the petty, and be your true master, always exerting your true self and not being subject to your whims."
Right?
Like, it's the right context, and the right message, because obviously it is not a petty emotion to think "I wish I wasn' ...[text shortened]... our mind over the petty parts of the mind that we otherwise have.
I think that's a better idea.
I am interested in how the quote applies to things like ideology and religious belief.
Personally, when it comes to a belief in supernatural beings, supernatural phenomena and supernatural causality, I don't think people can use their mind to decide to believe in them if they do not find them credible, just as people cannot decide NOT to believe in a god or gods [or other supernatural things] if they realize such beliefs have taken hold of them and so start exerting a "power" over one's thoughts.
With notions like supernatural causality, I think what is involved is something akin to a 'gut feeling' that conjures up a "power" that the mind cannot overcome or escape from, maybe until something happens that 'breaks the spell', so to speak..
Christian belief used to hold "power" over me, for example, but I didn't decide one day not to have Christian beliefs. There was not a point in time before which I was a believer and after which I was an ex-believer. It was a long process and at some point, I realized that I didn't really believe certain things anymore. It was not a decision. Deciding and realizing are both functions of the "mind", yes, but I didn't use my mind to "decide" to not be a Christian.
So, the quote might apply pretty well to certain ideological or philosophical beliefs, where decisions can be made that unhook you from certain doctrines and actions attendant thereto.
And while it might be tempting for a religionist [or an atheist] to say to some other (differing) religionist: 'It's you who has given power to these beliefs related to [insert a religion or denomination here, but these beliefs only have power over you if you allow them to' ...while it may be tempting to say that to someone with different religious/spiritual beliefs, I don't think that's how gut-feelings/superstition/religiosity work. Edit: ...nor is how it works with a lack of religious belief, for that matter.
20 Oct 18
@philokalia saidIncidentally, do you still hold the view that (the now banned from the site member) Romans1009 is one of the best posters here?
So you are suggesting that the solution to hunger is not being hungry in your mind?
The solution to not having a car is to have a car in your mind...?
The solution to being handcuffed is to not be handcuffed in your mind?
20 Oct 18
@divegeester saidResting on your laurels?
Incidentally, do you still hold the view that (the now banned from the site member) Romans1009 is one of the best posters here?
20 Oct 18
@fmf saidThen IS it a metaphor or ISN'T it?
KellyJay is not the only Christian here who believes that some of the functionality of the mind actually does take place in the heart, even though talking about the heart as the source or holder of strong beliefs and emotions is so obviously a metaphor. SecondSon is another one. And Romans1009 believed it too and talked about it to me seriously before he started all the creepy st ...[text shortened]... straight question. And it got a straight answer from KellyJay, by way of a copy pasted Bible verse.
If one acknowledges that it IS a metaphor, then it remains a metaphor whenever anyone mentions it, no?
Or is it only a metaphor when you mention it, but when they mention it, they think it's true? Is that what you're saying?
20 Oct 18
@divegeester saidBagging me with the rest. I see what you did there.
No just being noisily smug that “we” were right about the creepy stalker and enjoying gloating that the unprincipled likes of Philokalia, dj2becker and yourself were so wrong that it’s hilarious.
20 Oct 18
@suzianne saidSeveral Christian here believe that some of the functionality of the mind literally takes place in the heart when it does not.
Then IS it a metaphor or ISN'T it?
If one acknowledges that it IS a metaphor, then it remains a metaphor whenever anyone mentions it, no?
Or is it only a metaphor when you mention it, but when they mention it, they think it's true? Is that what you're saying?
20 Oct 18
1 edit
@suzianne saidYep; just recently when Romans1009 disappeared for a while you were immediately jumping on the “forum abuse and bullying” bandwagon being propagated by the likes of dj2becker and started accusing myself and others of harassing Romans1009 off of the website despite me not exchanging a single post with him for weeks and weeks beforehand.
Bagging me with the rest. I see what you did there.
So yes...on this occasion...you are well and truly in that bag. Had you of shown some real principle and called Romans1009’s behaviour out as myself and others did, and stood by those of us who who saw him for what he was, and said so, then you would not be in that “bag”.
That may offend you but it is the truth and it is now self-evident since his banning.
20 Oct 18
@suzianne saidWhen Romans1009 left the forum for a while, thoroughly bored because the people he was stalking had simply ignored him for two months, you said that he had been a "victim" of being "chased from thread to thread" by divegeester.
Bagging me with the rest. I see what you did there.
@fmf saidWe are body, soul, and spirit. The thing about metaphors they are there to reflect some truth to make some truth easier to grasp. Therefore, having a metaphor used doesn't mean a truth is not being shared it only means it is being shared through a metaphor. Are the hearts of man and our minds the same thing when it comes to scripture? They are not since we are told that the peace of God will guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. I doubt very seriously this is new for you, but like many things you go on about your heart has been darkened and hardened to truth when it comes to scripture, more metaphors for you to wrap your head around.
KellyJay is not the only Christian here who believes that some of the functionality of the mind actually does take place in the heart, even though talking about the heart as the source or holder of strong beliefs and emotions is so obviously a metaphor. SecondSon is another one. And Romans1009 believed it too and talked about it to me seriously before he started all the creepy st ...[text shortened]... straight question. And it got a straight answer from KellyJay, by way of a copy pasted Bible verse.
Philippians 4:7
And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Proverbs 13:12
Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life.
Proverbs 14:14
The backslider in heart will be filled with the fruit of his ways, and a good man will be filled with the fruit of his ways.
Proverbs 15:28
The heart of the righteous ponders how to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things.
Proverbs 16:1
The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.
Proverbs 18:12
Before destruction a man's heart is haughty, but humility comes before honor.
Proverbs 20:9
Who can say, “I have made my heart pure; I am clean from my sin”?
Proverbs 21:2
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart.
Proverbs 24:17
Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and let not your heart be glad when he stumbles,
Proverbs 27:19
As in water face reflects face, so the heart of man reflects the man.
20 Oct 18
@kellyjay saidwe are a soul the rest is illusion
We are body, soul, and spirit. The thing about metaphors they are there to reflect some truth to make some truth easier to grasp. Therefore, having a metaphor used doesn't mean a truth is not being shared it only means it is being shared through a metaphor. Are the hearts of man and our minds the same thing when it comes to scripture? They are not since we are told that the ...[text shortened]... e stumbles,
Proverbs 27:19
As in water face reflects face, so the heart of man reflects the man.
20 Oct 18
@kellyjay saidLike I said, trying to attribute strong religious beliefs to the "heart" rather than the "mind" ~ as if this sets one's religious thoughts and beliefs above and apart from ordinary thoughts and beliefs ~ is a nothing but a rhetorical gimmick.
We are body, soul, and spirit. The thing about metaphors they are there to reflect some truth to make some truth easier to grasp. Therefore, having a metaphor used doesn't mean a truth is not being shared it only means it is being shared through a metaphor. Are the hearts of man and our minds the same thing when it comes to scripture? They are not since we are told that the ...[text shortened]... e stumbles,
Proverbs 27:19
As in water face reflects face, so the heart of man reflects the man.
20 Oct 18
@karoly-aczel saidI believe we have souls, I'd say the rest isn't an illusion its as real as it gets. The
we are a soul the rest is illusion
joining and relationship of body, soul, and spirit are lost on those only look at the
material world around them ignoring much of it if they cannot touch it or measure
it.