1. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Apr '08 09:00
    For instance, in the bible it says 'god made man in his own image'. Well isn't that cute. I rather think it the other way round. Men invented gods to control people and build a power base and to be able to subjugate women and thats about it. Considering all the diabolically opposed religions on earth that sanction killing, do you seriously think that kind of cruel and insane behaviour could possibly come from a god? That would be like us having an ant farm and one specific ant pisses us off and we kill it as a warning to its friends. Thats what your insane god does. The fact that you (the religious fundamentalists, christian, muslim, jewish, whatever) think that god is like that pretty much proves to me no such thing could ever come to be. Look at the way the Taliban treats women where they are in power, besides the head to toe clothing women are forced to wear because the men are so sex crazed they can't stand to see female flesh, they also have dictions about women laughing. Women can't laugh there for fear of being beaten, by men of course. Lets see, what kind of god would sanction such a thing, hmm? Does the word insane apply here? And the fact that 100 years ago in the US women were not even allowed to vote. Wow, now THATS a godly thing to do, eh. What exactly is it about your god that makes it so insane?
  2. Cape Town
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    22 Apr '08 09:14
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Men invented gods to control people and build a power base and to be able to subjugate women and thats about it.
    Do you actually believe that or are you just trying to get a reaction? Surely you realize that it is far more complicated than that? I am sure that some people have invented gods in the past (Scientology came to mind but I don't think they have any gods do they?) but I don't think that is the only origin of religions, and certainly not the only reason for their continuing prevalence.
    You might be surprised to discover that many traditions that subjugate women are also spread and encouraged by the women themselves - including the burka.
  3. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Apr '08 09:30
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Do you actually believe that or are you just trying to get a reaction? Surely you realize that it is far more complicated than that? I am sure that some people have invented gods in the past (Scientology came to mind but I don't think they have any gods do they?) but I don't think that is the only origin of religions, and certainly not the only reason for ...[text shortened]... subjugate women are also spread and encouraged by the women themselves - including the burka.
    When a religion is invented, and I mean that in the fullest human terms, books and codes and codexes can be written by the thousands, generating reams of godly appearing words that come from nobody but man. In the same way the pyramids are thought by some people to be so beyond the abilities of the ancient cultures, therefore they had to have had help from friendly spacefaring aliens who had nothing better to do than help them build huge economy wrecking monuments to the egomaniacs running the place, they could never have done it themselves, so that one theory goes, and so goes the idea that the so-called holy books were too incredibly fantastic to have ever been created by mere men. That is a bunch of bullcrap. Men can make monstrous piles of books cleverly designed to control people and make them starting with absolutely nothing. It happens all the time. You mentioned scientology, a good example. That started basically as a bet at a party. Granted, L Ron Hubbard was brilliant but he started with exactly nothing and wrote himself a multibillion dollar worthless religious empire. So it also went with all the ancient religions.
  4. Cape Town
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    22 Apr '08 10:32
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    When a religion is invented, and I mean that in the fullest human terms, books and codes and codexes can be written by the thousands, generating reams of godly appearing words that come from nobody but man. In the same way the pyramids are thought by some people to be so beyond the abilities of the ancient cultures, therefore they had to have had help from ...[text shortened]... multibillion dollar worthless religious empire. So it also went with all the ancient religions.
    You are trying to simplify a highly complex process. Even Scientology is far removed from what L Ron Hubbard came up with immediately after his bet. Religions evolve. And often without direct conscious thought or planning by those involved.
    I agree that people can and have created "monstrous piles of books cleverly designed to control people" but I strongly disagree that all religions were started that way or that is an accurate description of the majority of religions. And your "starting with absolutely nothing" is so way off the mark. All major religions build on previous ones.
    If you think about it I really cant see how you can claim that the "Song of Solomon" could be considered a "book cleverly designed to control people". The same could be said of a lot of other books of the Bible which include poetry, history, ethics etc. In fact I doubt you can name one book in the Bible that you honestly believe was written in order to start a religion. In fact not one of them was written until after the religion they are about was already in existence. The best you could claim is that they significantly changed or perpetuated a religion.
    Which other 'holy books' can you point to that fit your claim?
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    22 Apr '08 11:26
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    For instance, in the bible it says 'god made man in his own image'. Well isn't that cute. I rather think it the other way round. Men invented gods to control people and build a power base and to be able to subjugate women and thats about it.
    You have argued this before.
  6. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Apr '08 14:33
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    You are trying to simplify a highly complex process. Even Scientology is far removed from what L Ron Hubbard came up with immediately after his bet. Religions evolve. And often without direct conscious thought or planning by those involved.
    I agree that people can and have created "monstrous piles of books cleverly designed to control people" but I stron ...[text shortened]... erpetuated a religion.
    Which other 'holy books' can you point to that fit your claim?
    The books of the bible are supposed to be as if someone was a conduit to a god and just jotting down the 'lords' word. There is no such thing. It is all invented by man and man alone, with a few women thrown in for good measure. Don't forget, back 2-3,000 years ago, anyone who was literate, what was the literacy rate then, 1 percent? So anyone literate in their own language can just start writing down whatever comes to mind and then have a 'vision' and just make a claim 'god' spoke to him and told him this is how it is, I am a just god, blah blah blah. In truth there is no such thing as writings coming directly from a god. If there was a god, there would be no need for an intermediary, it would just say, ok humans, this is how it is.......
    The fact that in these religions there is always someone who is the broker, the intermediary, who comes out of the mountain after a vision, speaks volumes about the likelyhood that any such event took place, simply because a real god would not need an intermediary and would not consider person A any better than person B, they would all be considered to be on the same level, as much as we would like to have our human totem pole of abilities, such and such a person is a REALLY REALLY good writer, I think (the god talking to himself) I'll have him be my ghost writer. Wow, how frigging arrogant can you get?
    Like some omnipotent god couldn't just have 2 million copies of The Word appear just as easily as finding just that right person in the desert who just happened to have consumed one too many mushrooms if you know what I mean. The fact that people are so gullible as to believe such rubbish, thousands of years ago it was maybe more understandable but today, we can see billions of light years out into space, contemplate even other universes, and the like, we should bloody well know better than to believe someone who claims to 'speak' for some god. Its the originators of the various religions I am railing against, not the poor sap taken in by this claptrap. Anyone can start a religion, just look at Jim Jones or Iatollah or any of the rest, you can see how well THAT turned out, REALLY god like. So why do you think the history of christianity is any differant?
    Christianity was hijacked by Paul, it wasn't even Christ's idea to do what paul made of it. Paul had to have a religion of miracles to sell it to the Romans, Christ didn't preach miracles, but paul saw the Romans absolutely required miracles in order for there to have a viable religion. They had their little miracles in the roman religions too, the temples had very saavy engineers who made incredibly intricate machines that convinced joe public that a miracle had just taken place. So in comes Paul. Hey there is this dude, jesus, and he fed THOUSANDS of people with one frigging loaf of bread and a fish, what about that! Come one, come all, partake of this bright shiny new religion that will replace all those rusty gods with one BIG god. How bout that! They will make a place for you in the AFTERLIFE and you will go to heaven after you die but ONLY if you do the rites just like we prescribe. Oh, btw, you women have to go to the back of the church, god does not like vagina's for some reason. Don't ask me, thats what he said......
  7. Felicific Forest
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    22 Apr '08 14:491 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    For instance, in the bible it says 'god made man in his own image'. Well isn't that cute. I rather think it the other way round. Men invented gods to control people and build a power base and to be able to subjugate women and thats about it. Considering all the diabolically opposed religions on earth that sanction killing, do you seriously think that kind o w THATS a godly thing to do, eh. What exactly is it about your god that makes it so insane?
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    For instance, in the bible it says 'god made man in his own image'. Well isn't that cute. I rather think it the other way round.

    Correct. This goes for all the man made gods.

    Except for the one true God who is not man made, but who is the Creator of the Universe ... and that is the God who reveals Himself in the history of the Jewish people and His Son Jezus Christ.
  8. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Apr '08 15:58
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    [b]For instance, in the bible it says 'god made man in his own image'. Well isn't that cute. I rather think it the other way round.


    Correct. This goes for all the man made gods.

    Except for the one true God who is not man made, but who is the Creator of the Universe ... and that is the God who reveals Himself in the history of the Jewish people and His Son Jezus Christ.[/b]
    Ah, you make with the jokes, Jezus, what a relief.
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    23 Apr '08 00:22
    when you look at the world today and the problems such as starving children; you must conclude god is evil for not intervening.
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    23 Apr '08 03:19
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    For instance, in the bible it says 'god made man in his own image'. Well isn't that cute. I rather think it the other way round. Men invented gods to control people and build a power base and to be able to subjugate women and thats about it. Considering all the diabolically opposed religions on earth that sanction killing, do you seriously think that kind o ...[text shortened]... w THATS a godly thing to do, eh. What exactly is it about your god that makes it so insane?
    You don't think it is arogant, condescending and elitest to declare what other people think?

    Orthodox Christians don't make it up. They act on what they read in the Bible. It is others that are making up their morality and other beliefs based on what they want at the moment.
  11. tinyurl.com/ywohm
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    23 Apr '08 03:27
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    when you look at the world today and the problems such as starving children; you must conclude god is evil for not intervening.
    Why is God the one who's evil for not intervening. Have you?
  12. weedhopper
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    23 Apr '08 05:21
    The "God made us in His image" verse, as I learned in Sunday School some 40+ years ago, does not refer to God's physical attributes. It referes to His being a spiritual entity and, by definition, we are also "of the Spirit".
  13. Cape Town
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    23 Apr '08 07:02
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    The books of the bible are supposed to be as if someone was a conduit to a god and just jotting down the 'lords' word.
    Where did you get that idea? Have you even read the song of Solomon? I don't think any book in the Bible claims to be dictated by God and I think that the number of Christians who think it is is a very small minority.
    You are confusing the Bible with the Quran.
  14. Subscribersonhouse
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    23 Apr '08 09:08
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Where did you get that idea? Have you even read the song of Solomon? I don't think any book in the Bible claims to be dictated by God and I think that the number of Christians who think it is is a very small minority.
    You are confusing the Bible with the Quran.
    So the bible is known to have no connection to a god? That's a relief. Had me worried for a minute there. So it's just another man-made religion just like I said.
  15. Subscribersonhouse
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    23 Apr '08 09:11
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    The "God made us in His image" verse, as I learned in Sunday School some 40+ years ago, does not refer to God's physical attributes. It referes to His being a spiritual entity and, by definition, we are also "of the Spirit".
    You swollow the con act hook line and sinker.
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