12 Apr 18
Originally posted by @romans1009The original Greek Septuagint has 'was A God'.
...and the Word *was* God.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
(John 1:1-3)
But you can gather that from other writings
.. God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (Ephesians 3:9 KJV)
God created everything through the Word of God.
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Originally posted by @galveston75Are you allowed to have interaction with Rajk999?
Of course he existed before any human. Jesus was created long before the earth was even here. But he is not his Father Jehovah who created Jesus, his firstborn. That's why the scripture at Col 1:15 says Jesus was the "firstborn of all creation".
Have you been warned not to associate with a former Jehovah's Witness who no longer associates himself with any kingdom hall.
I theorize that Rajk999 is a disgruntled or disfellowshiped former Jehovah's Witness.
And I right?
Your terrible "translation" the New World Translation puts [other] in brackets so as to convey the meaning not intended by the original Greek.
"Because in Him were all [other] things created"
Something like that you read in your twisted NWT.
Right?
And previously they did not have the brackets around "other". But the outcry from scholars was so strong that your editorial staff had to put brackets around the word.
You want to convey your heretical meaning that Jesus was the FIRST item created by God as God first created Michael the angel and then Michael created all OTHER things.
But that is not the meaning of Colossians 1:15,16.
Rather Jesus Christ as the Firstborn of all creation is the preeminent One of all creation.
God did not create flesh first in time.
But God incarnating as flesh when becomming a man was the Firstborn of all created things in that He is preeminent in all creation as God become a man.
12 Apr 18
You want to convey your heretical meaning that Jesus was the FIRST item created by God as God first created Michael the angel and then Michael created all OTHER things.
But that is not the meaning of Colossians 1:15,16.
Rather Jesus Christ as the Firstborn of all creation is the preeminent One of all creation.
God did not create flesh first in time.
But God incarnating as flesh when becomming a man was the Firstborn of all created things in that He is preeminent in all creation as God become a man.
12 Apr 18
Originally posted by @galveston75I'm not even going to respond to anything here that makes no sense on any level. Sorry but I have to draw the line when it comes to trying to deal with total confusion....
You want to convey your heretical meaning that Jesus was the FIRST item created by God as God first created Michael the angel and then Michael created all OTHER things.
But that is not the meaning of Colossians 1:15,16.
Rather Jesus Christ as the Firstborn of all creation is the preeminent One of all creation.
God did not create flesh first in ...[text shortened]... he Firstborn of all created things in that He is preeminent in all creation as God become a man.
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13 Apr 18
Originally posted by @galveston75The irony.
I'm not even going to respond to anything here that makes no sense on any level. Sorry but I have to draw the line when it comes to trying to deal with total confusion....
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13 Apr 18
4 edits
Originally posted by @galveston75Christ is both God and the creation of God.
I'm not even going to respond to anything here that makes no sense on any level. Sorry but I have to draw the line when it comes to trying to deal with total confusion....
Why is He God?
He is God because God in the OT says that He is God.
But to which of the angels has He ever said, "You are My Son, this day I have begotten You"? And again, I will be a Father to Him, and He will be a Son to Me"?
...
...
But of the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, ..." (See Hebrews 1:5-8a)
The Son of God is God whose throne is forever and ever.
Furthermore NO ANGEL can compare in status or position to the Son of God, who is addressed as "O God".
Whether this makes sense to Galveston or not, this is what is written.
Now Jesus Christ is also a man - "the man Christ Jesus" (First Timothy 2:5).
And without possibility of dispute, man was created by God. Therefore man is an item of God's creation.
"And so God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." (Genesis 1:27)
So God us uncreated not the first thing created.
And man of flesh is created, after the foundation of the world was created (See Genesis 1:1-27)
In God becoming a created man He was the preeminent item in all creation. The incarnation made Jesus Christ "the Firstborn of all creation".
For Galveston to defeat this logic, he should prove that the very first item in time God created was man, was human flesh.
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13 Apr 18
4 edits
Now Galveston may reach for Proverbs 8 which he may point out has Divine Wisdom as the first thing Jehovah God created. But my better translation, the Recovery Version does not say God created Wisdom before He created all things. it says God POSSESSED Wisdom before He created all things.
"Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. I was set up from eternity, From the beginning, before the earth was." (Proverbs 8:22,23)
IF Wisdom here stands for Christ (which may be possible) Wisdom [Christ] would not be saying that God created Wisdom first. It would say God POSSESSED (had) Wisdom from eternity.
Now ask yourself this: If God did not possess Wisdom then how could He have the wisdom to create Wisdom?
As long as God has been - the Wisdom of God has been.
And Christ is "God" ... Hebrews 1:8 comp. Psalm 45:6,7.
Whether this makes sense to Galveston's natural mind or not this is the revelation of the Bible and informs the faith of Christians.
Now Galveston says he's sorry that he cannot respond. But let's wait and see if he attempts to anyway.
13 Apr 18
Originally posted by @sonshipThe book of Genesis explains the order of creation...
Christ is both God and the creation of God.
Why is He God?
He is God because God in the OT says that He is God.
[quote] [b] But to which of the angels has He ever said, "You are My Son, this day I have begotten You"? And again, I will be a Father to Him, and He will be a Son to Me"?
...
...
But of the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ...[text shortened]... is logic, he should prove that the very first item in time God created was man, was human flesh.
13 Apr 18
Originally posted by @galveston75Is that all you get out of Genesis?
The book of Genesis explains the order of creation...
13 Apr 18
Originally posted by @secondsonThere is more to it then that? Holy moly I never knew that... I feel so dumb!!
Is that all you get out of Genesis?
13 Apr 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @galveston75"...God first created Michael the angel and then Michael created all OTHER things."
You want to convey your heretical meaning that Jesus was the FIRST item created by God as God first created Michael the angel and then Michael created all OTHER things.
But that is not the meaning of Colossians 1:15,16.
Rather Jesus Christ as the Firstborn of all creation is the preeminent One of all creation.
God did not create flesh first in ...[text shortened]... he Firstborn of all created things in that He is preeminent in all creation as God become a man.
Provide scriptural proof.
13 Apr 18
Originally posted by @galveston75You sound dumb, and probably look dumb too.
There is more to it then that? Holy moly I never knew that... I feel so dumb!!
13 Apr 18
Originally posted by @secondsonThats deep.... comments on how people look .. nice one
You sound dumb, and probably look dumb too.
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14 Apr 18
5 edits
Originally posted by @galveston75
The book of Genesis explains the order of creation...
The book of Genesis explains the order of creation...
And man is created on the sixth day.
So you cannot say the man Christ was the FIRST thing God created.
What about angels? You may say that God created angels first. I have no problem with that theory. However, Hebrews chapter one spends verse after verse telling us that NO angel can be considered as on the same level as the Son of God, Christ.
"For to which of the angels has He [God] ever said, You are My Son ...?" (Heb. 1:5a)
The rhetorical question can only be answered by TWO or possibly three names.
Gabriel? No.
Michael? No.
Daystar (Lucifer [Latin])? No.
"To which of the angels?"
"To none of the angels" is the answer.