Originally posted by jaywillYeah, yeah, yeah ....
Yes. God needs man to accomplish His eternal purpose.
And man needs time and space to exist. Man needs a univese. So for the sake of the existence of man God created the heavens and the earth.
Then in the course of time God Himself became a man that He might make man and God united to be one.
Dont start with the foolishness again.
We have been through the discussions and you could not produce any evidence of that garbage in the Bible except with the .... if this verse means this ... and that verse means that ... and put it together with this verse .... plus the other vague verse ... therefore we have the proof .... kind of argument.
I dont want to hear it.
Your ability to detect a BS argument is weak. If this ridiculous theory is true then God had no purpose before the the creation of man. Is that what you think?
Originally posted by Rajk999Rajk999 doesn't want to hear about this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah ....
Dont start with the foolishness again.
We have been through the discussions and you could not produce any evidence of that garbage in the Bible except with the .... if this verse means this ... and that verse means that ... and put it together with this verse .... plus the other vague verse ... therefore we have the proof .... kind ...[text shortened]... s theory is true then God had no purpose before the the creation of man. Is that what you think?
Is there anyone who would like to hear about it ?
Originally posted by Rajk999To you what I write is "BS". "Don't start" you say.
So you cant answer the question.
Did God have an eternal purpose before the creation of man?
Your way of conversing is crude. Please go your way and believe what you would like. OF course you can keep writing things on this or any other thread.
But I don't want to have discussion with you anymore.
Originally posted by jaywillI think you have too much estrogen....
To you what I write is "BS". "Don't start" you say.
Your way of conversing is crude. Please go your way and believe what you would like. OF course you can keep writing things on this or any other thread.
But I don't want to have discussion with you anymore.
😀
Originally posted by Rajk999Maybe you could work a little on disagreeing without sounding so rudely disagreeable.
I think you have too much estrogen....
😀
You could try saying "No. I think you are incorrect for these reaasons."
The other comments not only make you sound weak. They "poison the well" for civil discussion.
Originally posted by jaywillI think your well-written, honey-coated garbage-doctrine is far worse than my slightly offensive language.
Maybe you could work a little on disagreeing without sounding so rudely disagreeable.
You could try saying "No. I think you are incorrect for these reaasons."
The other comments not only make you sound weak. They "poison the well" for civil discussion.
Imagine you think God had no purpose before the creation of man and His eternal purpose is to be with man. Thats the ultimate insult to God. That makes Man more important and superior to God.
What an abosolute fool you are !
Folks there a number of things that God did before the creation of the universe. The Bible tells us so.
These things are indications of a purposeful intent in the Divine heart before God created the universe. Here are the passages:
1.) God planned to give man grace:
"This grace was given to us before the creation of the world" (2 Tim. 1:9 )
Without at this time going into a discussion about what grace is, it is evident that God planned to give this grace to man before the creation of the universe. This reveals a purposeful God. From the divine viewpoint the grace was given to His people "before the creation of the world."
2.) God had a promise to grant eternal life to His people before the beginning of time.
"The hope of eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2)"
3.) He foreknew that the man Christ Jesus would be Lord and Savior before the creation of the world.
"He was foreknown before the foundation of the world. "(1 Peter 1:20)
From the divine viewpoint Christ was appointed before the creation of the world.
4.) He chose that in Christ, all those in that realm - of Christ, should be predestinated to share Christ's glorious destiny before the foundation of the world. He chose those in the realm of Christ to be holy and without any blemish before God.
"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love."
5.) Before the foundation of the world, ie, before the creation of the universe He made a plan that some creatures, human men and women, would be predestinated unto sonship. That is to share the life and nature of God.
"He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world ... predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (See Eph. 1:4-5)
6.) God purposed that some human beings would be His special inheritance. That is that He would thoroughly possess them as His inheritance and treasure:
"In whom also we were designated as an inheritance, having been predestinated according to the purpose of the One who works al things according to the counsel of His will ..." (Eph. 1:11)
This and other things were according to His eternal purpose
" ... according to the eternal purpose He made in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Eph. 3:11)
God predestinated to show all the other spiritual rulers created by Him the magnificence of His wisdom through His masterpiece the church:
"In order that now to the rulers and authorities in the heavenlies the multifarious wisdom of God might be made known through the church, according to the eternal purpose which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Eph. 3:10-11)
All things were created for His will. All things came into being because of the will and plan of God:
"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, for You have created all things, and because of Your will they were and were created." (Revelation 4:11)
The strong implication of Ephesians 1:4 is that prior to God creating the universe, He already had a plan to have sons of God. He planned it "before the foundation of the world" which would mean before the creation of the universe:
"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:4-5)
Prior to creation God had a plan and a good pleasure to fulfill.
Based upon this plan, based upon this good pleasure God then laid the foundation of the world. He created the universe for a stage upon which to carry out His eternal purpose which He purposed in Himself.
God loved the Son who existed in the divine glory before the world came into being. We know because of the prayer of Jesus:
" And now, glorify Me along with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." (John 17:5)
Jesus also prays that His disciples would share in the divine glory and the divine expression of the Divine Being - the Father. He prays that His disciples would be where He is:
"Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)
The spiritual wisdom given to the apostles of Christ was also ordained and predestined for them before the creation of the world - before the ages.
"But we [the apostles] speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the wisdom which has been hidden, which God predestined before the ages for our glory." (1 Cor. 1:7)
So we can see that God, before the foundation of the world, before the creation of the universe, had a plan and a destiny marked out beforehand according to His eternal purpose.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOnePah! A lie is when you know something is not true and you state it as true.
A typically irrational KM response.
You admitted in your previous post that you were making an assumption. You knew you were making an assumption, but presented it as fact. This makes it a lie. This shows you a knowing and willing liar.
As usual, certain concepts are beyond you.
I obviously did not lie because I am 99% certain you do not believe in God. It's the only logical explanation as to why you won't declare it.
I cannot imagine that you would be ashamed of such a belief. I doubt that it would be very revealing either because it's very unlikely to include personal details about you. You also have every reason to declare it because you would then make me look quite silly.
Infact there are many reasons why I can come to an assumption about your disbelief in God. It is of course an assumption nevertheless but then you also assume that Jesus means the things you say he means but state them as if they were fact.
It's a common way that all of us use to express our beliefs and assumptions , we state them confidently as fact because we can see no other possible explanation. Scientists state the Big Bang as fact but they don't know for sure. Are they lying as well?
If you think that KM is a liar when he is convinced about something and states it confidently as a fact then what on earth do you call a real proper lie that is a deliberate attempt to deceive?
The information that would clear this all up is in your hands , perhaps you could say why you choose not to reveal it? Is it one of your games?
Originally posted by knightmeisterThis is much like the level of reasoning when you claimed that I believed in merit based salvation rather than transformation based salvation even though you were well aware that I believe in the latter.
Pah! A lie is when you know something is not true and you state it as true.
I obviously did not lie because I am 99% certain you do not believe in God. It's the only logical explanation as to why you won't declare it.
I cannot imagine that you would be ashamed of such a belief. I doubt that it would be very revealing either because it's very unl our hands , perhaps you could say why you choose not to reveal it? Is it one of your games?
You have all the morality and reasoning power of a child.
I can only feel sorry for your children to have such an immature father.
You should seriously consider following Jesus instead of your ego.
The truth will set you free.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneMore bad fruits from your tree, I see.
This is much like the level of reasoning when you claimed that I believed in merit based salvation rather than transformation based salvation even though you were well aware that I believe in the latter.
You have all the morality and reasoning power of a child.
I can only feel sorry for your children to have such an immature father.
You should seriously consider following Jesus instead of your ego.
The truth will set you free.
Originally posted by jaywillThats your proof that God's eternal purpose is to manifest Himself in humanity .. predestination?
Folks there a number of things that God did before the creation of the universe. The Bible tells us so.
These things are indications of a purposeful intent in the Divine heart before God created the universe. Here are the passages:
1.) God planned to give man grace:
[b]"This grace was given to us before the creation of the world" (2 Tim. 1:9 )[/ destiny marked out beforehand according to His eternal purpose.[/b]
There are about 30 to 40 birds that hang around in my backyard waiting for me to feed them, and I probably feed them 3 to 4 times a day. Im sure that in their little Birdie Authorised Version they have proof that the only reason why Rajk exists is to feed them. What else could I be existing for? They dont know I play chess or watch TV. They see me getting in the car ... but surely that must be to get more food !!
Jaywill, youre a birdbrain, if you think that Gods eternal purpose is to become one with mankind ...
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThanks for confirming that it is one of your games.
This is much like the level of reasoning when you claimed that I believed in merit based salvation rather than transformation based salvation even though you were well aware that I believe in the latter.
You have all the morality and reasoning power of a child.
I can only feel sorry for your children to have such an immature father.
You should seriously consider following Jesus instead of your ego.
The truth will set you free.
BTW- How can you believe in salvation when you don't seem to believe in God? Where exactly are we supposed to be saved to ? New York or something?