Jesus said, "you are to be perfect"

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
look before we go any further, you had better define what you mean as trinity, because from this reasoning, i cannot make out whether you believe it or not, or what it is you actually do believe!

I believe that Jesus Christ is the complete God and the perfect man.

I believe that God is eternally one and yet eternally Father, Son, and Spirit. The three are distinct but not seperate.

Without abandoning His divinity, He was conceived in the womb of a human virgin woman. He lived a genuine human life on earth, and died a vicarious and all inclusive death on the cross. He arose on the third day and is now in glory, fully God but still fully man.

God is the Father. God is the Son Jesus Christ, and God is the Holy Spirit. There is only one God. He is the Triune God - Father - Son - Holy Spirit.

The Bible says that all the fullness was pleased to dwell in Christ. That is all of the fullness, not one third of the fulness.

It is not 33.33333 percent of the fulness. It is all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ bodily:

"For in Him [Christ] dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9)

"For in Him [Christ] all the fullness was pleased to dwell." (Col. 1:19)

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
look before we go any further, you had better define what you mean as trinity, because from this reasoning, i cannot make out whether you believe it or not, or what it is you actually do believe!

LOL . ... jaywill is going to drive you nuts.
Some time ago I had this same argument with him and I just abandoned the discussion in frustration.

The first thing you have to get these guys to do is to stop using words that are not in the Bible. Triune, trinity and others.

Originally posted by Rajk999
LOL . ... jaywill is going to drive you nuts.
Some time ago I had this same argument with him and I just abandoned the discussion in frustration.

The first thing you have to get these guys to do is to stop using words that are not in the Bible. Triune, trinity and others.

Don't go nuts. Pray about what I quoted and what I said.

Talk to God.

Have a good talk with Him.

Originally posted by jaywill
Don't go nuts. Pray about what I quoted and what I said.

Talk to God.

Have a [b]good talk with Him.[/b]

OK ... I will.
You pray as well.
Ask God to explain to you why is it that the disciples did not believe in this triune God ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
OK ... I will.
You pray as well.
Ask God to explain to you why is it that the disciples did not believe in this triune God ?

There's no need to pray that.

The disciples of the Lord were too busy enjoying the Triune God. The Trinity is for experience firstly.

The Trinity is not for the purpose of you and I having a doctrine about called "the Trinity."

The Trinity is not chiefly for doctrinal formulization. The Trinity for enjoyment of the the love of God, the grace of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit to be with us.

Originally posted by jaywill
There's no need to pray that.

The disciples of the Lord were too busy enjoying the Triune God. The Trinity is for experience firstly.

The Trinity is not for the purpose of you and I having a [b]doctrine about called "the Trinity."

The Trinity is not chiefly for doctrinal formulization. The Trinity for enjoyment of the the love of God, the grace of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit to be with us.[/b]

Is that your speculation or is that also in the Bible?

Originally posted by jaywill
Don't go nuts. Pray about what I quoted and what I said.

Talk to God.

Have a [b]good talk with Him.[/b]

ummm, would that be God or Jesus?

Originally posted by Rajk999
OK ... I will.
You pray as well.
Ask God to explain to you why is it that the disciples did not believe in this triune God ?

I can't believe this. The truine God is not some wacky way out doctrine it's a logical direct extrapolation from Jesus's teachings about the Holy Spirit. The theology came later so the disciples would not have had the chance to "believe" something that had not been formulated , but the basics of the trinity are there - it's no brainer!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
answer the questions and don't try to squirm out of it, the references are easily understandable, the logic unassailable, God, Jehovah is not Christ, they are separate, distinct, father and son, creation and creator, not part of some blasphemous trinity, please do not cloud the issues!

A father does not "create" a son (except in pinnochio) the Bible says Christ was begotten and through him everything was "created" - but hey ho - just a minor detail.

A father and son are separate but not in essence. They share the same substance and being.

Originally posted by knightmeister
I can't believe this. The truine God is not some wacky way out doctrine it's a logical direct extrapolation from Jesus's teachings about the Holy Spirit. The theology came later so the disciples would not have had the chance to "believe" something that had not been formulated , but the basics of the trinity are there - it's no brainer!

no, i think that your first description was not only more apt but much closer to the truth but alas it didn't go quite far enough, its pure tosh and you guys know it!, however i really would appreciate if one of you trinitarians would care to post what it is you actually are giving credence to, for the life of me i cannot grasp what the good natured but ill informed jaywill was on about, i thought that he may express it in terms of scriptural references but he seemed content to clutch at non existent straws and ultimately self destructed in a barrage of contradiction and ambiguity!

Originally posted by Rajk999
An important test of doctrine which is useful to apply is to ask.. "Did the disciples and Apostles in the time of Christ believe this doctrine". It is clear that from the numerous times they referred to Christ as the SON OF GOD, they believed Him to be the SON and NOT THE FATHER or GOD himself. They believed that he was sent by God. The prophesies all predicted that a Messiah will come, a Saviour. Not God himself.

It all makes sense now. You can't see God's grace because you cannot see Him when He comes to live with us.

Originally posted by knightmeister
I can't believe this. The truine God is not some wacky way out doctrine it's a logical direct extrapolation from Jesus's teachings about the Holy Spirit. The theology came later so the disciples would not have had the chance to "believe" something that had not been formulated , but the basics of the trinity are there - it's no brainer!

If Christ or Paul did not 'formulate' it ... I aint interested in it.

Originally posted by knightmeister
It all makes sense now. You can't see God's grace because you cannot see Him when He comes to live with us.

You've seen God?
Describe Him ?

Originally posted by knightmeister
It all makes sense now. You can't see God's grace because you cannot see Him when He comes to live with us.

Back to the ole "Secret Decoder Ring" theory.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no, i think that your first description was not only more apt but much closer to the truth but alas it didn't go quite far enough, its pure tosh and you guys know it!, however i really would appreciate if one of you trinitarians would care to post what it is you actually are giving credence to, for the life of me i cannot grasp what the good natured ...[text shortened]... non existent straws and ultimately self destructed in a barrage of contradiction and ambiguity!

Whether the trinity is intellectual tosh or not is hardly here nor there. Christ clearly taught that he would petition to the Father and give to us via the Holy Spirit. There's a whole load of stuff about the Holy Spirit that Jesus said that needs some kind of theology to cover it.

If the trinity is wrong then what's your replacement?