John 10:33

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No it doesn't, your paganism is extra biblical and its hilarious that you people are so absolutely devoid of reason that you need to resort to ludicrous assertions that the Holy spirit prevents people from seeing the miracle of the trinity. Wow, Christ never mentions it and its unheard of in the Pauline letters. Its only a matter of time before you ...[text shortened]... ling about the floor to the sound of the tambourine, filled with the miracle of the Holy spirit.

"No it doesn't,.."

Not to you it doesn't.

How about you? Do you have what it takes to read the two verses I quoted and tell me what they say?

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"No it doesn't,.."

Not to you it doesn't.

How about you? Do you have what it takes to read the two verses I quoted and tell me what they say?[/b]

I think thinkofone already pointed out the salient points of the verse, if you don't believe him why would you believe anyone else?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No it doesn't, your paganism is extra biblical and its hilarious that you people are so absolutely devoid of reason that you need to resort to ludicrous assertions that the Holy spirit prevents people from seeing the miracle of the trinity. Wow, Christ never mentions it and its unheard of in the Pauline letters. Its only a matter of time before you ...[text shortened]... ling about the floor to the sound of the tambourine, filled with the miracle of the Holy spirit.

Said the man that can't even get a simple verse like Colossians 1:15 right.

You've proved your bias against the word of God time and again in this forum. Do you think anyone is going to listen to anything you say? Think again.

Christ knew you'd be dropping by, robbie. He warned us all against false prophets. Do us a favor and try to get at least ONE thing about the Bible right before you strut in here calling us all pagans. I'm pretty sure the truth might SEEM paganistic to people like you who can't even understand simple Bible verses.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"No it doesn't,.."

Not to you it doesn't.

How about you? Do you have what it takes to read the two verses I quoted and tell me what they say?[/b]

Of course he doesn't. He's got a whole corporation's agenda to push. He can't be bothered with the truth.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I think thinkofone already pointed out the salient points of the verse, if you don't believe him why would you believe anyone else?

The thing is, that ToO is wrong.

And so are you.

jaywill said it all when he said that one needs the Holy Spirit before they can understand the Trinity. No wonder a lot of people in here are missing the point.

You can't even get Colossians 1:15 right, robbie. Should we think you could be trusted to get John 10 right? Clearly not.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The thing is, that ToO is wrong.

And so are you.

jaywill said it all when he said that one needs the Holy Spirit before they can understand the Trinity. No wonder a lot of people in here are missing the point.

You can't even get Colossians 1:15 right, robbie. Should we think you could be trusted to get John 10 right? Clearly not.

How would you know, seriously, you are so absolutely blinded by dogma as to be incapable of rational thought. As for colossians the evidence was presented which you could not refute because it clearly states that Jesus is of the creation that is a part of it and the absolute lunacy of your claims was demonstrated by a simple consideration of the language. You are bust, absolutely bust, your translation was exposed as harbouring interpolations and now you need to resort to claiming that no one gets the miracle of the trinity (elevated from a mystery to a miracle) because of the Holy spirit. Such a stance fully desrves to be mocked.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I think thinkofone already pointed out the salient points of the verse, if you don't believe him why would you believe anyone else?

ToO said about as much as you did, which is nothing at all.

Because you can't! Yes, you can debate and argue with something I said, but you can't argue with the Word of God. That's why you remain silent concerning Rev. 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

One verse is all it takes to turn your entire theological premise on its head. What could you possibly say to that anyway? I don't mean to sound harsh about it, but don't you think you ought to open your eyes?

Rather than wrest with the scriptures and twist the meanings of words, why don't you simply surrender to the authority of the written Word?

Originally posted by sonship
Without touching the Holy Spirit no one can believe the Trinity.
It is a miracle that we believe the three-one God.

According to the Orthodox Christian dogma the Trinity concept is extremely simple:

The Christian G-d (a single one G-d, Creator of All), sends his Spirit (Holy Spirit) to talk to the people; Jesus, the Son of G-d, is also G-d and is the way G-d revealed Himself to the human beings in order to be understood by the people, because nobody could otherwise see G-d in a physical way. All the above mentioned details are backed up by hermeneutics.


I fail to understand the reason why is this concept so hard to be understood by any Christian. I understand the reason why this concept is accepted by some and rejected by some; but believing or rejecting the concept of Trinity is strictly related to hermeneutics and not to miracles
😵

Originally posted by black beetle
According to the Orthodox Christian dogma the Trinity concept is extremely simple:

The Christian G-d (a single one G-d, Creator of All), sends his Spirit (Holy Spirit) to talk to the people; Jesus, the Son of G-d, is also G-d and is the way G-d revealed Himself to the human beings in order to be understood by the people, because nobody could otherwis ...[text shortened]... or rejecting the concept of Trinity is strictly related to hermeneutics and not to miracles
😵

Hermeneutics notwithstanding, and since you have no trouble with the simple concept of a triune Godhead as taught by the scriptures, you would also have to give ground concerning the importance of the Holy Spirit as that agent of the Godhead which without the believer would have no hope of communicating with God or understanding His Word.

That is what the Word of God teaches. And while I may not agree with the poster's use or application of such teaching, nevertheless the Holy Spirit is essential to both the understanding of Holy Writ and the Christian walk.

Originally posted by josephw
Hermeneutics notwithstanding, and since you have no trouble with the simple concept of a triune Godhead as taught by the scriptures, you would also have to give ground concerning the importance of the Holy Spirit as that agent of the Godhead which without the believer would have no hope of communicating with God or understanding His Word.

That is what the ...[text shortened]... less the Holy Spirit is essential to both the understanding of Holy Writ and the Christian walk.

If G-d is really transcedental, all scriptures would merely point to this entity and nobody could offer descriptions of its nature. If a scripture describes G-d's nature partly or in whole, then that G-d is not transcedental. The Trinity concept fails simply because G-d is by definition transcedental😵

Originally posted by black beetle
If G-d is really transcedental, all scriptures would merely point to this entity and nobody could offer descriptions of its nature. If a scripture describes G-d's nature partly or in whole, then that G-d is not transcedental. The Trinity concept fails simply because G-d is by definition transcedental😵

The Trinity Doctrine is not meant as a description of God's nature, but to represent all that the Holy Scriptures have revealed about God as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in as simple a form as possible to help us with a little understanding of the complexity of the one God.

Reading the text it is obvious that Jesus claims to be the Son of God. The question then becomes, what does this mean?

The point is then driven home when Jesus revealed his identity to this disciples. He forbad them to reveal to anyone that he was the Son of God.

Obviously, revealing this fact would have caused people to want to kill him. Being the Son of God would have set himself apart from everyone else, but why?

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Trinity Doctrine is not meant as a description of God's nature, but to represent all that the Holy Scriptures have revealed about God as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in as simple a form as possible to help us with a little understanding of the complexity of the one God.

The Trinity Doctrine is not supposed to be understood as a parable, but as the true nature of G-d. The problem is that if this holds, then G-d is not transcedental.

On the other hand, the complexity of G-d is indeed a complexity due to the fact that G-d is transcedental. Therefore the Trinity Doctrine cannot be true but merely a conceived by human beings religious theory about G-d's nature. In fact, a believer shouldn't need "a little understanding" of the complexity of the one G-d; he would feel free to choose to fully believe in one purely transedental G-d, whose real nature is hidden
😵

Originally posted by black beetle
The Trinity Doctrine is not supposed to be understood as a parable, but as the true nature of G-d. The problem is that if this holds, then G-d is not transcedental.

On the other hand, the complexity of G-d is indeed a complexity due to the fact that G-d is transcedental. Therefore the Trinity Doctrine cannot be true but merely a conceived by human be ...[text shortened]... free to choose to fully believe in one purely transedental G-d, whose real nature is hidden
😵

Well, based on your logic then saying God is a single being can not be true either because there is no complexity at all in that description.

Originally posted by black beetle
If G-d is really transcedental, all scriptures would merely point to this entity and nobody could offer descriptions of its nature. If a scripture describes G-d's nature partly or in whole, then that G-d is not transcedental. The Trinity concept fails simply because G-d is by definition transcedental😵

Ok. So here's my reply. But keep it in mind that I hold to the idea or concept that that which is known about God is revealed by God, and I can find no word in the scriptures that even remotely describes God as transcedental.

If one uses that term to mean that if what can be known about God is known, then therefore God is not transcedental, then perhaps God isn't transcedental.

Furthermore therefore, one who takes it upon oneself to use terms extra biblical to give definition to God, then inverts the idea or concept of a God revealing characteristics of Himself, which then disqualifies those characteristics by virtue of a self implied description, then God is unknowable, and that would be a direct contradiction of the revelation of God, which is the Word of God.