Originally posted by ChessPraxis 1. is false, just give the OT a quick read.
But the OT is full of exhibitions of mercy from God.
For example, what about the prophet Jonah going to Nineveh and preaching to the people to turn from their wicked ways to avoid God's wrath? They repented and were shown mercy dispite their former wicked ways.
Originally posted by whodey But the OT is full of exhibitions of mercy from God.
For example, what about the prophet Jonah going to Nineveh and preaching to the people to turn from their wicked ways to avoid God's wrath? They repented and were shown mercy dispite their former wicked ways.
Originally posted by whodey But the OT is full of exhibitions of mercy from God.
How is that relevant. It is a fact that the OT contains at least one example of God ' casting a punitive judgement', therefore 1. and the OT are in contradiction.
I think I will change my stance on 1. to: A just God would not cast the punitive judgement described by most religions as it appears to serve no purpose, but might nevertheless in certain circumstances cast punitive judgement where it does serve a purpose.
Originally posted by twhitehead I think I will change my stance on 1. to: A just God would not cast the punitive judgement described by most religions as it appears to serve no purpose, but might nevertheless in certain circumstances cast punitive judgement where it does serve a purpose.[/b]
The Old and New Testament are no different in that regard. They both have examples of being punitive but they both have examples of being merciful. The Nwe Testament simply adds the twist of grace mixed in with the sacrifice on the cross.
As for suffering, I would think that a God of love would zero in on erradicating suffering wouldn't you? As a result, he must expunge all sources of suffering. Biblically, this means expunging any source of great wickedness, hence punitive action to be taken.
Originally posted by whodey The Old and New Testament are no different in that regard. They both have examples of being punitive but they both have examples of being merciful. The Nwe Testament simply adds the twist of grace mixed in with the sacrifice on the cross.
As for suffering, I would think that a God of love would zero in on erradicating suffering wouldn't you? As a result ...[text shortened]... ically, this means expunging any source of great wickedness, hence punitive action to be taken.
The God of love who 'eradicates suffering' by 'expunging any source of great wickedness' by committing acts of suffering?!
Never got my head round that one. For a God who is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient i would say your God does come across as rather rubbish.
Originally posted by Proper Knob The God of love who 'eradicates suffering' by 'expunging any source of great wickedness' by committing acts of suffering?!
Never got my head round that one. For a God who is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient i would say your God does come across as rather rubbish.
It appears that he is not sentimental like humans but exercises love, justice, wisdom
and power in balance, without sentiment.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie It appears that he is not sentimental like humans but exercises love, justice, wisdom
and power in balance, without sentiment.
we dont know all the facts dear Noobster, but yes, punishment was severe, the point
however is that it was not arbitrary, warnings issued, chances were given again and
again. One only need to look at how many prophets were sent and killed to realise
that sometimes enough is enough and action must be taken. Thus God is consistent
with the exercise of justice and tempering that justice with mercy.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie we dont know all the facts dear Noobster, but yes, punishment was severe, the point
however is that it was not arbitrary, warnings issued, chances were given again and
again. One only need to look at how many prophets were sent and killed to realise
that sometimes enough is enough and action must be taken. Thus God is consistent
with the exercise of justice and tempering that justice with mercy.
Killing innocent women and children is not 'justice' by any stretch of the imagine, and certainly not from a God is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient.
Originally posted by whodey The Old and New Testament are no different in that regard. They both have examples of being punitive but they both have examples of being merciful. The Nwe Testament simply adds the twist of grace mixed in with the sacrifice on the cross.
Nevertheless, it contradicts 1. as 1. clearly states that not one incident of punitive action would be /has been cast.
As for suffering, I would think that a God of love would zero in on erradicating suffering wouldn't you? As a result, he must expunge all sources of suffering. Not if he is all powerful. If he is all powerful he would prevent suffering rather than take action after the fact.
I am also not convinced that action after the fact can genuinely be called eradicating suffering. It may prevent further suffering, but one can never turn back time and undo past suffering.
Biblically, this means expunging any source of great wickedness, hence punitive action to be taken. Which makes no sense whatsoever. Punitive action does not expunge past suffering. This is a major problem with Biblical theology which tries to draw an analogy with human justice systems, but fails to recognise the purpose of human justice systems.
I have brought this up many times on this forum and never got a satisfactory answer.
Originally posted by Proper Knob Killing innocent women and children is not 'justice' by any stretch of the imagine, and certainly not from a God is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient.
Ok i am not going to try to justify divine acts of execution, on women. children or
domestic animal. Were those people warned or were they not?
31 Oct '11 04:051 edit
Judgement, Injustice, and love
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