Judgement, Injustice, and love

Originally posted by whodey
Which statement do you identify with best?

1. A loving God would not cast a punitive judgement upon me or anyone else.

2. A loving God would not turn a blind eye to injustice suffered by me or others around me.

1) true.

2) false. a loving god would not allow injustice at all, ergo it would never have to consider punitive judgement upon anyone.

Originally posted by twhitehead
A just and loving God, would never sanction war.

those two terms are mutually exclusive. a just and loving god cannot exist. you can have a just god, or a loving god, or maybe even a mad god, among some of the qualifiers.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
those two terms are mutually exclusive. a just and loving god cannot exist. you can have a just god, or a loving god, or maybe even a mad god, among some of the qualifiers.

Just when I thought you might be coming to your senses, you disappoint
me again with your wrong answers.

Originally posted by RJHinds
But if you don't know God, how can you really know if He is not "loving"
and "just".

Because the stories about God given in various theistic traditions describe a God who is neither just nor loving (as those terms are commonly understood). Of course, those traditions may be in errror; their books could make false claims about God, for instance. So I make no claim to knowing God (how could I, since I am an atheist). I just make claims about your God, as described by your tradition.

Originally posted by bbarr
Because the stories about God given in various theistic traditions describe a God who is neither just nor loving (as those terms are commonly understood). Of course, those traditions may be in errror; their books could make false claims about God, for instance. So I make no claim to knowing God (how could I, since I am an atheist). I just make claims about your God, as described by your tradition.

Apparently you don't know the claim of the Christian tradition for you
would not say that. The Christian God is both the God of justice and love
by delivering the children of Jacob (Israel) out of slavery and providing
them with a homeland if they were willing to fight for it. If He did
not love them and hate evil He would not have intervened in the
world to rescue them. If He did not love the whole world He would
not have sent His Son to save man. But we are again asked to fight
with spiritual weapons against the prince of darkness. He also provided
a land we call "America the Land of the Free" to all those willing to
fight for their freedom of religion. We must be willing to defend that
freedom and endure until He comes to rescue us from Satan and the
Antichrist.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
1) true.

2) false. a loving god would not allow injustice at all, ergo it would never have to consider punitive judgement upon anyone.

So God should have prevented the freedom to rebel against him?

That is, of course, assuming God is the source of all that is good.

Originally posted by twhitehead
A just and loving God, would never sanction war.

Even if it were a war against injustice?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
The God of love who 'eradicates suffering' by 'expunging any source of great wickedness' by committing acts of suffering?!

Never got my head round that one. For a God who is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient i would say your God does come across as rather rubbish.

I think that we can all agree that the world is a better place without the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, etc. To bring them to justcie, however, required suffering.

So you are presented with the conundrum of how to stop those who cause suffering. In fact, have you ever caused suffering? My guess is pretty much everyone has on some level.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Nevertheless, it contradicts 1. as 1. clearly states that not one incident of punitive action would be /has been cast.

[b]As for suffering, I would think that a God of love would zero in on erradicating suffering wouldn't you? As a result, he must expunge all sources of suffering.
Not if he is all powerful. If he is all powerful he would prevent ...[text shortened]... systems.
I have brought this up many times on this forum and never got a satisfactory answer.[/b]

So lets say that makind decides to end all suffering by some new technology that mimicks mind control. Should they pursue such action to help stop "bad" behavoir?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Apparently you don't know the claim of the Christian tradition for you
would not say that. The Christian God is both the God of justice and love
by delivering the children of Jacob (Israel) out of slavery and providing
them with a homeland if they were willing to fight for it. If He did
not love them and hate evil He would not have intervened in the
w ...[text shortened]... o defend that
freedom and endure until He comes to rescue us from Satan and the
Antichrist.

Ah yes, selective reading at its finest. Every delivery from evil is construed as indicative of God's justice and love. Every allowance of evil is construed as the byproduct of fallen humanity. Last night in Seattle a woman was raped and stabbed. God knew, could have prevented it, and presumably would have preferred it not happen. If I knew about it, and could have prevented it, but failed to do so, you would think I was morally in error. But you won't say the same about God. That's why you don't use terms like 'just' and 'loving' in the same way with regard to God. That's why I can't take you seriously when you use those sounds to try and say things about God.

Originally posted by whodey
So lets say that makind decides to end all suffering by some new technology that mimicks mind control. Should they pursue such action to help stop "bad" behavoir?

shouldn't they?

let's assume that a mind-control drug is invented that allows a criminally insane person to live a normal, fulfilling life in society. should he be denied that drug?

Originally posted by whodey
So God should have prevented the freedom to rebel against him?

That is, of course, assuming God is the source of all that is good.

that depends. what characteristics are you inferring on this god?

for example, if he is the source of all that is good, does that mean that he is not also the source of all that is bad? if not, then has he no power over all that is bad?

Originally posted by whodey
Even if it were a war against injustice?

there is no such thing. all war in unjust.

Originally posted by bbarr
Ah yes, selective reading at its finest. Every delivery from evil is construed as indicative of God's justice and love. Every allowance of evil is construed as the byproduct of fallen humanity. Last night in Seattle a woman was raped and stabbed. God knew, could have prevented it, and presumably would have preferred it not happen. If I knew about it, and ...[text shortened]... I can't take you seriously when you use those sounds to try and say things about God.

Didn't you know He has left that responsiblity up to us. We are at fault, not
God.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
there is no such thing. all war in unjust.

Sounds like robbie carobbie. With a little indoctrination you might make a
good Jehovah's Witness.