Judgments - One or Two?

Originally posted by sonship
These posts of mine for this discussion will be clipped and shortened and concise - manageable.

I will attempt to let the replying poster lead me in the way of answering my questions to address some of the issues posed.

Someone then -

1.) Is there a [b]"WHEN" told us of the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46?

2.) Is there a "WHEN" told us of the judgment of Revelation 20:11-15 ?[/b]

When:
1. When the son of man returns.
2. At the end of the 1000 yrs.

And ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Your father in law ...duh !

Well, at least you're consistently shallow.

Originally posted by josephw
Well, at least you're consistently shallow.

Says the man who cannot made a solid contribution to any thread, but instead continue to insult people discussing these matters. You are one shameless Christian.

Originally posted by Rajk999
When:
1. When the son of man returns.
2. At the end of the 1000 yrs.

And ?

Thankyou. Now this will remain respectful and civil.

First 2.) - I agree completely because the "WHEN" is told, I believe in Revelation 20:7.

"And when the thousand years are completed, ... " (v.7)

It is reasonable for me to believe the events of 11-15 are "WHEN" - the thousand years are completed.

Now another question about 1.) and Matthew 25:31-46. It says this -

" But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, at that time He will sit on the throne of His glory." (v.31)

"When" and "at that time" is specified for this judgment.
"When" and at what time will the Son of Man come with the glory of His angels and sit on the throne of His glory ?

Your thoughts?

Originally posted by sonship
Thankyou. Now this will remain respectful and civil. ..?

No .. respectful, civil and BRIEF !!

Originally posted by sonship
Thankyou. Now this will remain respectful and civil.

First [b]2.) - I agree completely because the "WHEN" is told, I believe in Revelation 20:7.

"And when the thousand years are completed, ... " (v.7)

It is reasonable for me to believe the events of 11-15 are "WHEN" - the thousand years a ...[text shortened]... of Man come with the glory of His angels and sit on the throne of His glory ?

Your thoughts?[/b]

My thoughts as as follows. Erase all the church doctrine from your head and lets start as if we are reading the Bible for the first time.. You think you can do that? Lets try it.

If a man goes away and says when I return home I will do ... xyz .. a multitude of things. Sometimes he gives an order of the things to be done, and sometimes there is not specific time or order given.
When I return I will fix the roof.... When I return I will build a shed etc

If we do that with what is said about the return of Christ then we can get a time frame when things might happen. The point is Christ saying WHEN I RETURN is not in any way saying that that item is first on the list. It could be anywhere during the 1000 yr reign.

The first step therefore is to make 2 lists.
One where the Bible is clear about the time.
One where the Bible gives no clear time or order.

Originally posted by Rajk999

My thoughts as as follows. Erase all the church doctrine from your head and lets start as if we are reading the Bible for the first time.. You think you can do that? Lets try it.

I am attempting to use the Bible.
See if you can cooperate.

From the Bible what would you say about the TIME in which the Son of Man comes with the glory of His angels and sits upon the throne of His glory ?

If a man goes away and says when I return home I will do ... xyz .. a multitude of things. Sometimes he gives an order of the things to be done, and sometimes there is not specific time or order given.
When I return I will fix the roof.... When I return I will build a shed etc

If we do that with what is said about the return of Christ then we can get a time frame when things might happen. The point is Christ saying WHEN I RETURN is not in any way saying that that item is first on the list. It could be anywhere during the 1000 yr reign.

So you are saying that we should read "WHEN I RETURN" basically and not be too concerned about the expression as written -

"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, at that time he will sit on the throne of His glory."

So a good interpretation is that the Son of Man comes, the angels accompany Him, He sits on the throne of His glory for a thousand years - 10 centuries. At the end of that time of being on the throne of His glory He has the great white throne judgment.

To you that is the best interpretation then?
And other viewpoints are "church doctrine" just in someone's head?

Cont. below

Originally posted by sonship

My thoughts as as follows. Erase all the church doctrine from your head and lets start as if we are reading the Bible for the first time.. You think you can do that? Lets try it.

I am attempting to use the Bible.
See if you can cooperate.

From the Bible what would you say about the TIME in which the Son of Man comes with the glory of ...[text shortened]... tation then?
And other viewpoints are "church doctrine" just in someone's head?

Cont. below

No time is given there. 'When Christ returns' is not a phrase that pinpoints as specific time.

Here is an example of pinpointing a time when something happens:

[i]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (1 Corinthians 15:22-26 KJV)[/i]

1. Those that are Christ will be made alive at this coming. [ a specific time - as Christ returns]
2. The last enemy to be destroyed is death [ a specific time - at the end or the 1000 years]
3. He must reign until all enemies are put down. [no specific time --- all during the 1000 years]

"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, at that time He will sit on the throne of His glory."

Is the phrase "the throne of His glory" used before this in Matthew ? Might that help us to understand Matthew 25:31-46 ?

For example we have Jesus beforehand saying this back in chapter 19:

"And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you that you who have followed Me, in the restoration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Luke 19:28)

Do you think this is the SAME "the throne of His glory" for the Son of Man as in 25:31?

Still keeping it civil here:

Erase all the church doctrine from your head

Should erroneous and correct "church doctrine" be erased together with the erasing of all church doctrine?

If I erase all church doctrine from my head should I erase the doctrine from my head that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, died and rose for our redemption ?

Do you mean "erase ALL" or do you really mean "erase ALL that you do not agree with" ?

Originally posted by sonship

[b] "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, at that time He will sit on the throne of His glory."

Is the phrase "the throne of His glory" used before this in Matthew ? Might that help us to understand Matthew 25:31-46 ?

For example we have Jesus beforehand saying this back i ...[text shortened]... think this is the SAME "the throne of His glory" for the Son of Man as in 25:31? [/b]

Same throne but it does not pinpoint a specific time when judgment will be done.

Originally posted by sonship
Still keeping it civil here:

Erase all the church doctrine from your head

Should erroneous and correct "church doctrine" be erased together with the erasing of all church doctrine?

If I erase all church doctrine from my head should I erase the doctrine from my head that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, died and rose for our redempt ...[text shortened]...
Do you mean "erase ALL" or do you really mean "erase ALL that you do not agree with" ?

Lets stick with what the Bible says clearly then.
Keep your doctrine but use only clear statements.

When Christ returns. Is not a specific time.
Thats a 1000 yr period.

See if you can get that point
I gave an example of the bible giving us an idea of when certain things are going to happen.
Tell me if you agree with it.

Rajk999, I am still trying to examine with you WHEN we might ascertain when the Son of Man comes with the glory of His angels and sits upon the throne of His glory.

Now at that time (at some time) this Son of Man on this throne gives invitation for the not condemned ones to come in to enjoy His kingdom:

" Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." (Matt. 25:34)

You say a the judgment could occur at any time after the commencement of the thousand years. Is it a good interpretation to think that the "restoration" occurs for a thousand years BEFORE the King, the Son of Man, invites saved nations to come in to enjoy it ?

Do you think there could be another valid way of looking at the "WHEN" of the Son of Man's sitting on the throne of His glory and inviting nations to enjoy the "restoration" ? I mean that restoration under "the Son of Man" sitting on the throne of His glory in 19:28 ?

Originally posted by Rajk999

Lets stick with what the Bible says clearly then.

That is why I am paying attention to the precise wording -

'When the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, at that time He will sit on the throne of His glory."

I could just say "Oh, when Jesus returns" and be done with it.

Clear thinking calls for me paying close attention to exactly what is said and how it is said.

Keep your doctrine but use only clear statements.

Up to now I don't think I have not displayed unclear statements.
But thanks anyway.

When Christ returns. Is not a specific time.
Thats a 1000 yr period.

The word parousia is open ended somewhat.
But this word is not used - "coming" in either Matthew 25:31 or Matthew 19:28 both of which talk about the Son of Man sitting on "the throne of His glory".

Cont. below.