@moonbus saidThanks for your input. But..... if one does believe in the Bible then one would have to acknowledge on some level on those things Jesus described have all been happening on a level never seen before in our history. All one would have to do is look at the world wide reports that are published for all to see one any of those signs that Jesus expressed.
Stop worrying about it. The people who wrote the Old Testament didn’t have a clue how or when the Earth began, and the people who wrote the New Testament didn’t have a clue how or when it will end.
The Apocalypse of John is not a prediction that these things are really going to happen. Such nightmarish visions were known and described by Buddhist monks and yogis a thousand ...[text shortened]... nconditionally, regardless of how they behave. Everything else will take care of itself in due time.
But sadly he said one of those things would be ones who deny them.
I live on the Gulf coast of Texas and have been through many hurricanes. The local authorities as well as the national weather services usually give ample warnings of how to protect your property and life. And most of those warnings tell all to leave to safer places.
But.... as usual there are many, who for various reasons do not pay attention to those warnings and the signs of an impending storm that even without the warnings given by the authorities, can be seen. Many just ignore them or don't believe them and almost all will defend their stand because they say they know better and it will not be as bad or that it will just go the other direction.
As a result hundreds will die every year for relying on their opinions and ignoring the warnings given.
Right?
@galveston75 saidHurricanes are the weather of the world; they can to an extent be predicted by scientific method and observation, this is not the same thing as a mythological prediction that 'things are going to go bad' at some unspecified time in the future. Anyone can say 'things will go bad' , and they have been doing so for thousands of years, and when things go bad it's 'Look, the predictions were right!' It's fitting the predictions to the results, and the results to the predictions. The reason that things are going 'bad' currently is that we as a species are messing with the only atmosphere on the only planet that we can live on. The climate of Planet Earth is ever changing due to natural processes, go back far enough and we couldn't have lived here at all, we're adapted and evolved to live within certain temperature ranges, oxygen levels and so on, and as long as that holds good we'll be okay, otherwise it's goodnight Vienna, and we leave the world to the cockroaches.
Thanks for your input. But..... if one does believe in the Bible then one would have to acknowledge on some level on those things Jesus described have all been happening on a level never seen before in our history. All one would have to do is look at the world wide reports that are published for all to see one any of those signs that Jesus expressed.
But sadly he said ...[text shortened]... undreds will die every year for relying on their opinions and ignoring the warnings given.
Right?
@galveston75 saidPeople die because they have ignored the hurricane/storm warnings issued by the authorities.
Thanks for your input. But..... if one does believe in the Bible then one would have to acknowledge on some level on those things Jesus described have all been happening on a level never seen before in our history. All one would have to do is look at the world wide reports that are published for all to see one any of those signs that Jesus expressed.
But sadly he said ...[text shortened]... undreds will die every year for relying on their opinions and ignoring the warnings given.
Right?
Using your analogy, who do you know have died or suffered because they ignored the Watchtower warnings of the last days ?
Answer : Nobody.
@Rajk999 saidOh my.... I think this post is about the Bible and what it says. All we do is open the bible up and turn to that page and scripture and point it out if ones at their door wants to listen. We happen to understand English in my area so I speak to them in English and they can now on their own read that scripture. If they do read it and have questions about it, we explain it in the easiest way we know how.
People die because they have ignored the hurricane/storm warnings issued by the authorities.
Using your analogy, who do you know have died or suffered because they ignored the Watchtower warnings of the last days ?
Answer : Nobody.
If they don't understand it and don't want to have us explain it to them we leave! It is a warning from God as to what has yet to happen. So out of concern for their welfare we let them see this. It is nothing we've made up as it is in your bible also. Do you share this warning with anyone? Do you even care????
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@Suzianne saidJohn 13:27
Are you sure about this?
Matthew, Luke and Acts all describe Judas being paid by the temple priests after going to them and offering to tell them what he knew of where the temple guards could find him.
Now at the Last Supper, Jesus did let Judas know that he knew Judas would betray him.
And Judas did kill himself out of remorse for the betrayal, he even tried to ret ...[text shortened]... on the ground. They recovered it and bought the Potter's Field where they eventually buried Judas.
And when Judas had taken the morsel, Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to Judas, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”
Rubbish. Putting the blame on Satan is a dodge. No demon entered into Judas. Judas did exactly what Jesus needed him to do in order that Jesus's mission on Earth should be completed. There was a hidden agenda, hidden that is from all the other disciples (this is so clear in the Gospel of Thomas, where Jesus is saddened that he cannot reveal his purpose in leaving them). Jesus cannot have not known what the hidden agenda was, he cannot have not known what would be necessary to fulfill his mission on Earth. Otherwise, his prayer in the garden of Gethsemene, 'Abba, Father, you could take this bitter cup from me, but not my will be done -- Thy Will be done,' makes no sense at all. Jesus growing old and dying fat and happy, like Buddha, wasn't the programme; it is essential to the Pauline conception of Christianity that there is no salvation without a resurrection, and therefore also no atonement for the sins of mankind without the most humiliating death and betrayal imaginable. It is not simply that Jesus knew that Judas would betray him; Jesus absolutely needed that he be betrayed, humiliated, tortured, and executed for crimes he did not commit, in order to suffer the maximum of what a human can suffer. It was intended, necessary, to complete his mission, and Judas was the tool Jesus used to accomplish it.
The deed must be done, but to woe him who must do it.
@moonbus saidOh, of this there is no doubt. Of course Jesus knew his Father's plan, and he came to earth to follow the plan to completion. But of course, being also human, he had an inkling of doubt and he was afraid in the Garden the night before of what had to be.
John 13:27
And when Judas had taken the morsel, Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to Judas, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”
Rubbish. Putting the blame on Satan is a dodge. No demon entered into Judas. Judas did exactly what Jesus needed him to do in order that Jesus's mission on Earth should be completed. There was a hidden agenda, hidden that is from all th ...[text shortened]... s was the tool Jesus used to accomplish it.
The deed must be done, but to woe him who must do it.
I do not know about Jesus using Judas, though. How could anyone, especially one without sin, do this to another human? Jesus knew how it would happen, but I cannot but doubt that Jesus would have placed this burden upon any person. He knew all of these men like a brother, and I cannot help but think he was dismayed for Judas.
@moonbus saidI value the concept of free will. I doubt Jesus would have "used" Judas for this task. But he DID know who would do it. Knowing the future does not endanger free will unless you convince people to commit to an action. Christianity at its most basic is a question of free will. All people, whether they choose Jesus or choose "not Jesus", must come to this tipping point of their own volition, so that none can argue that they "had no choice".
@Suzianne
I think he knew each disciple well enough to know whom to 'trust' with this abominable deed. Woe to him ...
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@Suzianne saidIt is not about knowing the future. It's about character. Yes, Judas was a thief; Jesus cannot have not known that about him. So why would Jesus have put a thief in charge of the apostles' purse, as John clearly states? It takes a thief to catch a thief--Judas would have known better than the other apostles what tricks to look out for should other thieves, not among the Twelve, try to get at the purse. So, he also sometimes purloined a bit of the apostles' money for himself-- "Carrying charges, my boy" Ferrari says to Rick in Casablanca. It's no secret to whom Jesus appeared, and appealed: not educated aristocrats, but lepers and whores and thieves, the downtrodden and the poor in spirit.
I value the concept of free will. I doubt Jesus would have "used" Judas for this task. But he DID know who would do it. Knowing the future does not endanger free will unless you convince people to commit to an action. Christianity at its most basic is a question of free will. All people, whether they choose Jesus or choose "not Jesus", must come to this tipping point of their own volition, so that none can argue that they "had no choice".
Judas and Pilate have gotten a lot of bad press over the last 2,000 years. Pilate found no guilt in Jesus and would have released him. The really culpable character, IMO, is Caiaphas, hidebound, and fully prepared to sacrifice a man for political influence.
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@galveston75 saidOr more importantly this one:
So.... getting back to the thread, what does Matt 24:14 refer to?
“This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”—MATTHEW 24:14.
"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only." Matthew 24:36-38
Did you stop reading at Matthew 24:14?
@moonbus saidCompletely agree. And I agree that Judas was the 'treasurer' of the group, and had a history of taking some for himself. It's fully in his character to try to make a little coin on outing Jesus to the temple priests. My main objection to your points is that Jesus 'used' him to further his own ends. He wouldn't have laid that kind of guilt on anyone. I also agree that Caiaphas was the main villain in the whole drama.
It is not about knowing the future. It's about character. Yes, Judas was a thief; Jesus cannot have not known that about him. So why would Jesus have put a thief in charge of the apostles' purse, as John clearly states? It takes a thief to catch a thief--Judas would have known better than the other apostles what tricks to look out for should other thieves, not among the Twelv ...[text shortened]... aracter, IMO, is Caiaphas, hidebound, and fully prepared to sacrifice a man for political influence.
@Suzianne saidThe whole of humanity ("All people" ) is not defined by whether they "choose Jesus" or not, there is also choose Buddha or not, choose Mohamed or not, choose science or not, and so on. I think you'll find if you travel around a bit that in certain countries which are not America, they don't give Jesus a second thought....To achieve "free will", it's necessary to first stop seeing the world through the prism of ones' own social conditioning, otherwise how do you know you have "free will"?
I value the concept of free will. I doubt Jesus would have "used" Judas for this task. But he DID know who would do it. Knowing the future does not endanger free will unless you convince people to commit to an action. Christianity at its most basic is a question of free will. All people, whether they choose Jesus or choose "not Jesus", must come to this tipping point of their own volition, so that none can argue that they "had no choice".
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidWhere have I said I know or that the JW's know? Pay attention... Now do you have any clue as to what this scriptures says?
Or more importantly this one:
"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only." Matthew 24:36-38
Did you stop reading at Matthew 24:14?
OH no..wait! You better run bubby. It's in the morning at 7:46 bright and early!!!!!!!!!
@Indonesia-Phil saidWhat I said was choose Jesus or choose "not Jesus" which is a much larger options list than just "not choose Jesus". I knew what I was saying when I typed it. I'm suspecting you read it the way you did because you thought this was the same as what you've been hearing, which is not what I said. So you yourself were viewing what you thought I said through your own prism of social conditioning.
The whole of humanity ("All people" ) is not defined by whether they "choose Jesus" or not, there is also choose Buddha or not, choose Mohamed or not, choose science or not, and so on. I think you'll find if you travel around a bit that in certain countries which are not America, they don't give Jesus a second thought....To achieve "free will", it's necessary to first ...[text shortened]... through the prism of ones' own social conditioning, otherwise how do you know you have "free will"?
I'm not your typical "my way or the highway" Christian like others here.