Latest Stuff on Zen Buddhism

At one point dive was a serious student of Zen and had a world-renowned teacher. But dive stumped his teacher with the following question:

“Teacher, one can see I have two hands and each hand is fully functional and capable of grasping a pint of ale. Yet, I possess only one mouth. Betwixt, dear teacher, how may my mouth satisfy that which my hands graspeth? Are not the members of my body in disharmony and at war with each other?”

dive’s teacher nodded sagely and replied: “Your enlightenment is most impressive.”

Originally posted by @romans1009
At one point dive was a serious student of Zen and had a world-renowned teacher. But dive stumped his teacher with the following question:

“Teacher, one can see I have two hands and each hand is fully functional and capable of grasping a pint of ale. Yet, I possess only one mouth. Betwixt, dear teacher, how may my mouth satisfy that which my hands gra ...[text shortened]... ch other?”

dive’s teacher nodded sagely and replied: “Your enlightenment is most impressive.”

Spoiler alert: his teacher was...

... FMF ...

Originally posted by @sonship

Explain how anyone can step outside of the illusion to perceive it. I mean if everyone is enveloped in the illusion how can anyone have stepped outside of the illusion to inform the rest of us that that is what it is?

Enlightenment.

The big criticism of Buddhism is the deconstruction of non-duality.

We are actually dual. We are actually differentiated from one another.

It is an act of sophistry to say that all things are so thoroughly interpenetrated with one another, all thigns are so interdependent and subject to "dependent origination" to such an extent that things do not exist independently int he least.

It exists independently if it can
(a) be distinguished
(b) act of its own accord.

It also plays with the idea of total fatalism that is just utterly useless. Everyone becomes so miserably enslaved to their pathetic circumstances that we are stuck with Thich Nhat Hanh writing poetry for murderers, talking about sympathizing with those whose hearts have not yet learned how to love.

At some poitn agency has to be ascribed.

... And then there is this idea that you can actually overcome the depraved, base state of man to achieve enlightenment and a sort of profound non-duality, but it is basically impossible for people to do this.

Christian Saints solve the problem by admitting they are still sinners and cannot overcome the base sensations within man that give us sudden flashes of anger or arousal.

Buddhists just shrug -- it is a religion of shrugging -- and can only say well, I am not there yet... And when you've got the Dalai Lama saying that ... IDK. Not really a persuasive system.

There's also the question of Buddhism asking you to totally sacrifice the individuality that you have and become non-dual.

A Christian has a soul; a Christian is distinguished; a Christian, in Heaven, is rejoined with God and the Saints. To a Christian, Theosis means becomign like God, but it implies retaining the aspects of ourselves that are individuated, the retention of the soul. All things are individual.

In Buddhism, the Tathaghatagarbha taken to the extreme is really "anatta." "Non-self." Selflessness.

Everything is so interpenetrated that, through Nirvana, non-existence is acheived; and the process of advancement in Buddhism involves some element of total self-erasure.

Christianity only posits the erasure of sin as the virtue, and to become more Christlike. It contends that there is an eternal soul, individuated, known and loved by God.

In Buddhism... "Soullessness" is one of the most fundamental teachings.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
I've been typing on a ps4 so I cant get much out._.

Gotama Bhuddha was born into a life of a prince .He had it all. He was shilded from the world by his parents. When he ventured out he saw sickness , old age and death. He sought to find out about life and left his palace to become an aesthetic . After 6 years of fasting and penance hwas revived by ...[text shortened]... dha .
He developed a doctrine to end sufferin.

Zen Buddhism is derived from Buddhas example

From what I understand you to say, this man somehow initiated stepping outside of the illusion to be able to objectively see the illusion for what it was.

Am I right?

How is it though that there was a need caused by suffering to begin with?

Did something happen to disarrange reality from the way it should have been for everyone? Why should there be this suffering and this illusion to begin with?

I appreciate that more time and space may be needed to answer these questions adaquately. Give it a try though Discussion Forum style - concisely?

Originally posted by @philokalia
There's also the question of Buddhism asking you to totally sacrifice the individuality that you have and become non-dual.

A Christian has a soul; a Christian is distinguished; a Christian, in Heaven, is rejoined with God and the Saints. To a Christian, Theosis means becomign like God, but it implies retaining the aspects of ourselves that are indivi ...[text shortened]... wn and loved by God.

In Buddhism... "Soullessness" is one of the most fundamental teachings.

I am going to try to allow this Zen to be explained by those who mention it a lot.

So for my part, I don't think I'll do much to lean the discussion towards the Christian faith.

I'm just speaking for myself.
We could certainly converse though on a few things said above. Some things about soul and soul-life are not easy to understand for me.

One is to be transformed.
The other is to be denied, terminated, allowed to be "crossed out" by enjoying the Spirit of Christ instead.

Theosis and Deification are, I think, virtually the same matter. Am I right about that?

A moment of enlightenment came to me as I was a college student having been interested in Zen and preparing some to move to Japan for serious study.

I was looking out of a window on about the fifth floor of a college building. I was observing the students congregated on the other side of the street.

One began to walk across the street. A car was approaching him. I noticed that he quickened his step so as to not be hit by the car.

I am not being a wise guy or frivolous. I contemplated the scene. I thought "No, this fellow realized the danger of being at the spot the car was approaching at the same time. it would have been bad for him to be struck."

I thought there must be something wrong with believing that everything was one. It was not possible to live that way.

From that moment I think I began to have second thoughts about Zen Buddhism. Was there something I didn't consider or realize?

Originally posted by @sonship
I am going to try to allow this Zen to be explained by those who mention it a lot.

So for my part, I don't think I'll do much to lean the discussion towards the Christian faith.

I'm just speaking for myself.
We could certainly converse though on a few things said above. Some things about soul and soul-life are not easy to understand for me.
...[text shortened]... tead.

Theosis and Deification are, I think, virtually the same matter. Am I right about that?

You are 'going to try to allow?'

Get over yourself.

Originally posted by @sonship
A moment of enlightenment came to me as I was a college student having been interested in Zen and preparing some to move to Japan for serious study.

I was looking out of a window on about the fifth floor of a college building. I was observing the students congregated on the other side of the street.

One began to walk across the street. A car was appr ...[text shortened]... an to have second thoughts about Zen Buddhism. Was there something I didn't consider or realize?

I believe you are describing the precise moment where you fundamentally misunderstood Zen.

I don't believe you have any genuine desire to correct that misunderstanding, despite creating this thread.

Originally posted by @sonhouse
So how has that worked out? Do Buddhists now have sickness free lives and free of old age and death?

We are not our vessels , we are eternal souls. Thats y I joke at egos and people get offended. It's very simple but goes very deep

Originally posted by @sonship
From what I understand you to say, this man somehow initiated stepping outside of the illusion to be able to objectively see the illusion for what it was.

Am I right?

How is it though that there was a need caused by suffering to begin with?

Did something happen to disarrange reality from the way it should have been for everyone? Why should ...[text shortened]... d to answer these questions adaquately. Give it a try though Discussion Forum style - concisely?

Life is a narrative . Demons and angels, if you like.
The One Spirit moves through everything. Spirit is our true identity . Freeing ourselves from duality returns us to Spirit.
You have the answers for yourself , you can deal with your own questions .
Live your life righteously , be not concerned for yourself but help others and a master will find you. I guarantee it

Originally posted by @sonship
From what I understand you to say, this man somehow initiated stepping outside of the illusion to be able to objectively see the illusion for what it was.

Am I right?

How is it though that there was a need caused by suffering to begin with?

Did something happen to disarrange reality from the way it should have been for everyone? Why should ...[text shortened]... d to answer these questions adaquately. Give it a try though Discussion Forum style - concisely?

Why? 'cause a bird sh**in your eye 😀

At this stage the whys and wherefores are too big a narrative , suffice to say Man has fallen and is now in the final phases of reclaiming his heritage

Originally posted by @sonship
A moment of enlightenment came to me as I was a college student having been interested in Zen and preparing some to move to Japan for serious study.

I was looking out of a window on about the fifth floor of a college building. I was observing the students congregated on the other side of the street.

One began to walk across the street. A car was appr ...[text shortened]... an to have second thoughts about Zen Buddhism. Was there something I didn't consider or realize?

Only consider yourself , your friends and family and stick to truth.
Dont gossip but talk about the truth of things, good things. Stop the negativity in yourself
Master say: Love me and I will love you ten times back, hate me and I'll hate you ten times as hard. Fair enough?

Let he who asks about Buddhism honestly be without blame.