Made in the image of God

@Indonesia-Phil

Try taking your head out of your bible and opening your mind to other possibilities; possibilities other than talking snakes, for example.

I don't know why you are so bothered by single instance in history of a snake that spoke.

The way I see it in the beginnings of human history God arranged things so that contless generations of humans for epochs to come could get some basic things straight.

Here are a few.

1.) Our origins are based in the supernatural. That is not to say continuosly ever since there has been an uninterrupted stream of supernatural causes. But the ORIGINS of our being here are supernatural.

2.) There is an opposing (non-human) opposition party full of lying, deception and intent on the ruination of man and all God has planned who also has its origins in the supernatural.

IF God wanted to use a paradise garden and a out of place slandering snake to communicate this to the greatest number of people, I count that as God's wisdom.

You see naivete.
I see divine wisdom.

At any rate, a primordial soup in which life accidently got kicked off from which the entire biosphere of every single living thing we see developed ( again by a non-intelligent "selection" algorithm ) explains all life, is not easier to imagine.

What was the very first instance of natural selection anyway ?

@sonship said
I don't know why you are so bothered by single instance in history of a snake that spoke.

If Romans/PB1022 wasn't serving yet another forum ban for malicious trolling, he would be telling you off for speaking about a talking snake, rather than a talking serpent.

@sonship said
I don't know why you are so bothered by single instance in history of a snake that spoke.

That there are people who believe a snake literally spoke because it says so in a book, is Exhibit A at the enquiry into whether such people have credible things to say about human consciousness, morality and the universe.

@sonship said
@Indonesia-Phil

Try taking your head out of your bible and opening your mind to other possibilities; possibilities other than talking snakes, for example.

I don't know why you are so bothered by single instance in history of a snake that spoke.

The way I see it in the beginnings of human history God arranged things so that contless generation ...[text shortened]... , is not easier to imagine.

What was the very first instance of natural selection anyway ?

In an uncertain world it's good to know that there are some constants, and that you are talking out of your asp as usual.

@sonship said
@Indonesia-Phil

Try taking your head out of your bible and opening your mind to other possibilities; possibilities other than talking snakes, for example.

I don't know why you are so bothered by single instance in history of a snake that spoke.

The way I see it in the beginnings of human history God arranged things so that contless generation ...[text shortened]... , is not easier to imagine.

What was the very first instance of natural selection anyway ?

The soup explanation isn't reasonable as far as a natural explanation is concerned. So many things have to be correct, a massive amount of must-haves in the right place, under the proper conditions, mixing in the correct order, with constraints all holding back unwelcome chemical reactions ruining what needs to occur. The is a massive miracle of natural materialism defying all odds.

We cannot do it under any condition we set up in our labs, yet in a pond or under a rock, it just happened? I didn't even add that code drives life, so how did that information get into the mix?

As soon as you say it must have been directed, millions of years are no longer a requirement, and we must start wondering about the one directing.

@kellyjay said
The soup explanation isn't reasonable as far as a natural explanation is concerned. So many things have to be correct, a massive amount of must-haves in the right place, under the proper conditions, mixing in the correct order, with constraints all holding back unwelcome chemical reactions ruining what needs to occur. The is a massive miracle of natural materialism defying a ...[text shortened]... millions of years are no longer a requirement, and we must start wondering about the one directing.

Yeah, what were the chances, eh? This is the old and tired argument of Christians trying to second - guess nature, and yet here we are, living in a world teeming with life, and awash with evidence for evolution which Christians just can't accept because it doesn't say so in the bible.
And it hasn't taken millions of years, it's taken billions of years, unimaginable timescales for us, and if these 'millions of years' are 'no longer a requirement', why did it take 'millions of years' for it to happen? Which as I've said was actually billions of years, which began with billions of years of nothing but single - celled life, so why? If your director, creator could just make stuff, why didn't they? Why waste all that time if their ultimate goal was to make Mr and Mrs Smith from 6 Willow Tree Avenue?

@indonesia-phil said
Yeah, what were the chances, eh? This is the old and tired argument of Christians trying to second - guess nature, and yet here we are, living in a world teeming with life, and awash with evidence for evolution which Christians just can't accept because it doesn't say so in the bible.
And it hasn't taken millions of years, it's taken billions of years, unimaginable t ...[text shortened]... y waste all that time if their ultimate goal was to make Mr and Mrs Smith from 6 Willow Tree Avenue?

If you tell me we see life, that is proof of a natural process: pure circular reasoning, nothing more. I don't care how much time you think you need to complete whatever processes you think are required for life; with all the time forever and a day, you cannot do what cannot be done. I don't believe in millions of years, but that doesn't matter to me, only to you. Suppose the process took millions of years directed or a moment directed. In either case, it is still a directed process, not one that occurred by mindlessness directing traffic performing complex processes restraining some reactions while causing others to occur for the proper amount of time to produce the proper material, in the proper quantities, and hold the required material until something else is ready that is required occurs under a rock or in a pond. All of that, knowing many of the things being built degrade if they are not quickly used or get contaminated by mixing with something that could prohibit it all going forward.

Then getting to the real hiccup in a mindlessly caused process, are the instructions found in life in the genetic code, how did all of that informational direction get written?

I didn't once say because the Bible says so, this is the hope you are pinning everything on not me.

@kellyjay said
I didn't once say because the Bible says so, this is the hope you are pinning everything on not me.

So when you say "The soup explanation isn't reasonable as far as a natural explanation is concerned" and instead tout the YEC Garden of Eden story INSTEAD, it's a case of "I didn't once say because the Bible says so", is that what you mean?

@fmf said
So when you say "The soup explanation isn't reasonable as far as a natural explanation is concerned" and instead tout the YEC Garden of Eden story INSTEAD, it's a case of "I didn't once say because the Bible says so", is that what you mean?

Every explanation will rise and fall on if it is true or not. Regarding the supernatural world acting in the natural world, yes, that seems more reasonable than a pure, materialistic, natural, mindless explanation. The odds for such a thing to occur would be akin to having to be dealt more than several straight flushes in a row purely by random honest chance to come close to just a few of the conditions being met when you look at all of the possibilities that could happen.

@kellyjay said
Every explanation will rise and fall on if it is true or not. Regarding the supernatural world acting in the natural world, yes, that seems more reasonable than a pure, materialistic, natural, mindless explanation.

And you leap from this thing that "seems more reasonable" to you...

...to something else and then leap to something else and then leap to something else and then leap to something else and then leap to something else until you eventually get to...

...non-believers/"the unforgiven" being brutalized using the worst imaginable agony for eternity by a morally-depraved God figure.

Because "...yes, that seems more reasonable" to you than anything else. Got it.

@kellyjay said
The odds for such a thing to occur would be akin to having to be dealt more than several straight flushes in a row purely by random honest chance to come close to just a few of the conditions being met when you look at all of the possibilities that could happen.

You can witter on about "odds" and "straight flushes" all you want, but neither of us actually knows what the origin of humans and human consciousness is.

@fmf said
And you leap from this thing that "seems more reasonable" to you...

...to something else and then leap to something else and then leap to something else and then leap to something else and then leap to something else until you eventually get to non-believers/"the unforgiven" being brutalized using the worst imaginable agony for eternity by a morally-depraved God figure.

Because "...yes, that seems more reasonable" to you than anything else. Got it.

Here is the thing, God is good, our problem is we are not, and some of us are so far from being good they don't even grasp the difference.

@kellyjay said
Every explanation will rise and fall on if it is true or not. Regarding the supernatural world acting in the natural world, yes, that seems more reasonable than a pure, materialistic, natural, mindless explanation. The odds for such a thing to occur would be akin to having to be dealt more than several straight flushes in a row purely by random honest chance to come close to just a few of the conditions being met when you look at all of the possibilities that could happen.

The main trouble is, "supernatural" does not explain anything.

You might as well say it was magic.

@fmf said
You can witter on about "odds" and "straight flushes" all you want, but neither of us actually knows what the origin of humans and human consciousness is.

You cannot look at possibilities and come up with what is reasonable? You want to say we cannot know for sure, so we cannot know?

For someone who seems to think all views are valid, all moral compasses point where ever and it is okay, you seem to be quite judgemental towards God. I guess that is okay because He will be judging us as well.