27 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI would say this is a generalization. All of Christendom? There are Christians that go out into the world to share the Good News. That do just as the JW's do. They feed the poor. Build houses for the poor. Provide education and on & on. Not all Christians are nominal pew sitters.
yes how very convenient it must be for you, but naturally it completely misses the entire point of the good news, tell me, what is it about the opening text that you do not understand or do want to understand?
what is it about mattew 28:19,20 that you are missing?
what is it about acts 20:20 you cannot fathom
the consequences for hiding the ...[text shortened]... e to tell you the good news of Gods kingdom, in obedience to Christ example and command are nil!
Manny
27 Aug 09
2 edits
Originally posted by menace71how many have called at your home Manny?
I would say this is a generalization. All of Christendom? There are Christians that go out into the world to share the Good News. That do just as the JW's do. They feed the poor. Build houses for the poor. Provide education and on & on. Not all Christians are nominal pew sitters.
Manny
you are confusing humanitarian work, with that of preaching and teaching! Christ was known as a healer? a miracle worker? No Christ was known as 'Rabbi', or teacher!
(Matthew 8:19-20) . . .And a certain scribe came up and said to him: “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you are about to go.” But Jesus said to him: “Foxes have dens and birds of heaven have roosts, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay down his head.”
(Matthew 9:11) . . .“Why is it that your teacher eats with tax collectors and sinners?. . .
(Matthew 12:38) . . .Then as an answer to him some of the scribes and Pharisees said: “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”
(Mark 4:38) . . .So they woke him up and said to him: “Teacher, do you not care that we are about to perish?”
(Mark 5:35) . . .While he was yet speaking, some men from the home of the presiding officer of the synagogue came and said: “Your daughter died! Why bother the teacher any longer?”
(Mark 9:38) . . .John said to him: “Teacher, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him. . .
(Luke 3:12) 12 But even tax collectors came to be baptised, and they said to him: “Teacher, what shall we do?”
etc etc
i have never had anyone, no, not once! has a member of Christendom called at my home to share the good News of Gods Kingdom, with me. the only occasion is when Mormons came, but they were discussing something quite different.
because of a clergy laity distinction, the mass of Christendom, are naught but nominal . i am always amazed when they say, oh yes, we are very active in our church? active doing what i thought? preaching and teaching others about biblical principles that they may better their lives? you bet! too busy making fairy cakes for the jumble sale and selling them to provide for the upkeep of their ostentations buildings!
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieFree will is incompatible with an omnipotent and omniscient god. The only way we could be said to have free will would be if god lacked one of those qualities.
ahh the folly of the rationalist, always questioning God??? It was not our Gods fault that my friend ran out in front of a car. Are we not endowed with free will, are we to mitigate the responsibility for our own actions and delegate them to God? The learned gentleman shall note that God does not shield us from the consequences of our own actions! ...[text shortened]... g tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try any. . .
🙂
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhen the Lord allegedly created the universe, he set in motion various chains of events which he knew would result in your friend being hit by a car on a certain date. Every choice, every action, every thought, and the eternal motion of every atom was determined at that moment of creation. Nothing could therefore deviate from what the Lord intended to happen. There can be no accidents and no free will in such a universe. If your friend was hit by a car it is because the Lord planned for it to happen and in fact wanted it to happen.
i need to go to work Ringy dude, if you would like to explain the meaning if this statement , i will read it whence i returneth!
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by rwingettYour a real work of art.....Lol. If nothing else your entertaining with your comments.
When the Lord allegedly created the universe, he set in motion various chains of events which he knew would result in your friend being hit by a car on a certain date. Every choice, every action, every thought, and the eternal motion of every atom was determined at that moment of creation. Nothing could therefore deviate from what the Lord intended to happe ...[text shortened]... as hit by a car it is because the Lord planned for it to happen and in fact wanted it to happen.
So the Lord planned your bathroom breaks today? How about what time you'll get out of bed next Monday or the time you got a cold last year or when you hit that bug driving in your car last week? All planned out huh? That's really funny!!!
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobievery anti christian answer. i enjoy people talking to me about the truth of god. tho docterene get right up my nose, peoples love of the word make my heart happy.
yes how very convenient it must be for you, but naturally it completely misses the entire point of the good news, tell me, what is it about the opening text that you do not understand or do want to understand?
what is it about mattew 28:19,20 that you are missing?
what is it about acts 20:20 you cannot fathom
the consequences for hiding the ...[text shortened]... e to tell you the good news of Gods kingdom, in obedience to Christ example and command are nil!
the point is which you seem to ignore, god gave us all diferent talents to use, not to use is as you know.
what point do you not get
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by galveston75When the Lord allegedly created the universe, do you think he did not know, in advance, what time I would get up on any given day? If he does not know, then he is not omniscient. If he does know, then I cannot behave any differently. The time I get up therefore has been pre-determined. It only appears to be my choice.
Your a real work of art.....Lol. If nothing else your entertaining with your comments.
So the Lord planned your bathroom breaks today? How about what time you'll get out of bed next Monday or the time you got a cold last year or when you hit that bug driving in your car last week? All planned out huh? That's really funny!!!
27 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingettWhatever. So he just made you write that post because he made me write my post because of your post??? Lol.
When the Lord allegedly created the universe, do you think he did not know, in advance, what time I would get up on any given day? If he does not know, then he is not omniscient. If he does know, then I cannot behave any differently. The time I get up therefore has been pre-determined. It only appears to be my choice.
Just because he might know what we are going to do today doesn't mean he made us do what we do today....
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by galveston75I think ringwett makes a very solid point. If God is Omniscient in the truest sense of the word, then he does know exactly when you will go to the bathroom. Remember he even knows how many hairs are on your head. I think the problem in the argument is in the definition of omniscient. does God know everything that has ever happened? yes. Does God see everything that happens as it unfolds? yes. Does God know what you'll eat for breakfast tomorrow? hmmmm... that is the question isn't it? If we truly have free will then God can't possibly know for certain what will happen. If he does know, then it isn't free will, it is predestination. We can say "oh know your wrong, I just open the fridge and eat something at random," But if its truly random then God won't know until it unfolds, if God knows the day before, then he has foreknowledge and it isn't random, your acts were predestined.
Your a real work of art.....Lol. If nothing else your entertaining with your comments.
So the Lord planned your bathroom breaks today? How about what time you'll get out of bed next Monday or the time you got a cold last year or when you hit that bug driving in your car last week? All planned out huh? That's really funny!!!
My answer is that God has omniscience in terms of knowing what has and is happening, but he doesn't know for certain what will happen. maybe its that way for his entertainment, so he doesn't succumb to boredom (ha ha). of course an intelligence that can know all that was and all that is, probably has pretty good forsight and can make very good guesses at the future. God also has the ability to make declarative statements about the future i.e. I will reign down destruction, yadda yadda yadda. That is a function of being all powerful. So God makes some pretty good guesses, and by his will can change the course of history and its outcome, but our individual choices are our own
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by menace71which is another way of saying what i said, but as you say pew sitters, in my view also do important work, by keeping the church they support going. which in turn gives a focal point that says this is christian faith.
I would say this is a generalization. All of Christendom? There are Christians that go out into the world to share the Good News. That do just as the JW's do. They feed the poor. Build houses for the poor. Provide education and on & on. Not all Christians are nominal pew sitters.
Manny
so let god be the judge as mr robbie seems to forget.
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMy next door neighbor. For years & years.
how many have called at your home Manny?
you are confusing humanitarian work, with that of preaching and teaching! Christ was known as a healer? a miracle worker? No Christ was known as 'Rabbi', or teacher!
(Matthew 8:19-20) . . .And a certain scribe came up and said to him: “[b]Teacher, I will follow you wherever you are about to go.” ...[text shortened]... or the jumble sale and selling them to provide for the upkeep of their ostentations buildings![/b]
Manny
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieChristendom runs the gambit. From one end of the spectrum to the other.
how many have called at your home Manny?
you are confusing humanitarian work, with that of preaching and teaching! Christ was known as a healer? a miracle worker? No Christ was known as 'Rabbi', or teacher!
(Matthew 8:19-20) . . .And a certain scribe came up and said to him: “[b]Teacher, I will follow you wherever you are about to go.” ...[text shortened]... or the jumble sale and selling them to provide for the upkeep of their ostentations buildings![/b]
Not all are as you portray. Jesus said leave the wheat & tares together. They will be separated. There are Christian missionary's that go out into the world to preach & teach. So to say all Christendom is nominal is a generalization.
Manny
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by galveston75Every effect has a cause. That cause will have a previous cause, which will in turn have a previous cause and so on. A seemingly infinite causal chain. The Christian tries to break out of this infinite regress by positing 'god' as the first cause, or uncaused cause. All causal chains, therefore, allegedly originate with god. Cause and effect, cause and effect, radiating outward from that initial moment of god's creation.
Whatever. So he just made you write that post because he made me write my post because of your post??? Lol.
Just because he might know what we are going to do today doesn't mean he made us do what we do today....
Not only this, but every causal chain must necessarily originate from god. If there are any causal chains which do not originate with god, then god fails as an explanation for the first cause.
When god allegedly created the universe and set all causal chains into motion, he foresaw what would happen along each point of every one. He knew he was setting events into motion that would result in Galvestion75 making a post on Red Hot Pawn, on August 27th, 2009. This chain of cause and effect was determined by god and set into motion long before you were born. The fact that you eventually did make that post had nothing to do with your "free will", but with the culmination of a series of causes and effects set into motion ages ago. You have the appearance of having freely made that post, but this is a false impression for you could not have done otherwise. You were pre-determined to make that post.
Now, being omnipotent, god could have created the universe differently. He could have altered the starting creation so that it resulted in different causal chains being played out over time. He could have tailored each causal chain to produce any event or series of events he desired. But he created the universe the way he did to produce the causal chains we see unfolding around us. The inescapable conclusion is that this is what god wanted all along. If he wanted something else he could have adjusted the starting input to produce that result.
If Robbie's friend was struck by a car, it is a direct result of causal chains that god knowingly set in motion. He could have arranged things differently so that Robbie's friend was NOT struck by a car, but he didn't. The conclusion is that god caused Robbie's friend to be struck by a car and that god wanted Robbie's friend to be struck by a car.
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We see people like Duecer trying to tinker with the meaning of "omniscience" to escape from this grim conclusion, but their tampering is not convincing.
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by rwingettWell it's still silly and that's just ones mans opinion..yours. All this does in your mind is release you from any respondsibility of your actions and not have to answer to anyone including God. If we were robots then your theory would be great but we're not and we have multiply choises every day to make on such things as what were going to eat or or in your case to believe in a God or not. Your picking the easy way out.
Every effect has a cause. That cause will have a previous cause, which will in turn have a previous cause and so on. A seemingly infinite causal chain. The Christian tries to break out of this infinite regress by positing 'god' as the first cause, or uncaused cause. All causal chains, therefore, allegedly originate with god. Cause and effect, cause and effe ...[text shortened]... science" to escape from this grim conclusion, but their tampering is not convincing.
Ecc 9:11 the later part of this verse explains what you refuse to see.