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Originally posted by menace71thats not even funny! however you are really blessed in America, for there are entire hospitals devoted to bloodless surgery, it is state of the art.
JW's get your blood transfusion here! Oh wait sorry can't do that!
Blood tranfusions .89 cents oh wait sorry can't do that. ; )
Originally posted by rwingettI didn't say that there's no Heaven, if you think there's no Heaven, then don't you think you better be on the safe side? What if there's a hell, wouldn't yo be sorry if there was and you went there because you didn't believe in it and just kept living the way you do?
If there's no heaven then Christians won't go there either.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYeah that was kinda low but explain it for us. galveston said he did in another thread but I don't remember it. How do we get an old testament command not to eat blood from an animal to do not get a blood transfusion? Yes we are very blessed in America despite our greed and what ever else we can say. Wealth beyond measure. I still love America. God did indeed bless her! There is always risk with blood but the life it gives I will bet far out weighs the risk. There is risk with a lot of medical procedures but there is risk in living. Maybe some medical people can weigh in on this subject.
thats not even funny! however you are really blessed in America, for there are entire hospitals devoted to bloodless surgery, it is state of the art.
Manny
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Originally posted by menace71i will let Galveston perhaps fill in the scriptural parts, but it is a religious belief and also an aspect of human rights, in that we claim the right of self determination.
Yeah that was kinda low but explain it for us. galveston said he did in another thread but I don't remember it. How do we get an old testament command not to eat blood from an animal to do not get a blood transfusion? Yes we are very blessed in America despite our greed and what ever else we can say. Wealth beyond measure. I still love America. God did inde ...[text shortened]... s but there is risk in living. Maybe some medical people can weigh in on this subject.
Manny
It is not really a problem any more for there are so many medical procedures that as technology has advanced can be utilised, even in the case of emergencies. This coupled with the fact that there are now what is termed blood fractions (whole blood can be split into four primary components, red cells, white cells, plasma and platelets), which can further be split into what is termed blood fractions, which we may utilise in surgery or elsewhere (you may find that for example treatment for vaccinations contains fractions, or treatment for diabetes). Many of these fractions, as medical science progresses are what is termed recombinant (produced synthetically) although expensive, for example Erythropoietin, which is a naturally occurring hormone which stimulates the body to produce its own red blood cells.
when one is going for elective surgery, there are many techniques which can also be applied, cell salvage machines, which salvage the blood, clean it and return it to the body during an operation. there is a procedure called hemodilution, which simply means that prior to an operation the blood is diluted, so that if loss occurs, it is a percentage of what would have been lost , due to its dilution. there are also laser scalpel, which seal the blood vessels as it cuts, thus further reducing any blood loss.
All of these techniques have improved the condition for Jehovahs witnesses in their religious stance ,and in their determination to uphold what is a religious belief and a matter of self determination (the right to decide what is done with ones own body)
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhile all of these advances are very good I never get an answer for this. It's a religious belief even that's ok but it does not answer the question on why JW's can't or will not receive blood transfusions. I guess self determination is the best answer. I understand that blood is very sacred and in the medical world we have to be extremely careful with it. My Dad's life was prolonged because he received transfusions. They gave him more life with quality. He did not die or get infected with a virus or anything. I understand the old testament command not to eat or drink the blood of animals. It's gross anyway. I understand that other religions sacrificed animals to their god's with blood and possibly ate this after the fact. God's way of separating His people by not practicing the same. However this has nothing to do with blood transfusions. I do think the bloodless technologies are awesome though.
i will let Galveston perhaps fill in the scriptural parts, but it is a religious belief and also an aspect of human rights, in that we claim the right of self determination.
It is not really a problem any more for there are so many medical procedures that as technology has advanced can be utilised, even in the case of emergencies. This coupled ...[text shortened]... belief and a matter of self determination (the right to decide what is done with ones own body)
Manny
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Originally posted by menace71perhaps because it can be a very emotive subject, people are a little reluctant to discuss it, for it can be subject to accusation and sensationalism. you are correct Manny, there is biblical grounds for the adoption of the religious belief, as you have mentioned, not only in the Hebrew scriptures, but in the Christian Greek Scriptures as well. It is important to understand the sanctity of blood, in that it represents the life, and that life is scared to God.
While all of these advances are very good I never get an answer for this. It's a religious belief even that's ok but it does not answer the question on why JW's can't or will not receive blood transfusions. I guess self determination is the best answer. I understand that blood is very sacred and in the medical world we have to be extremely careful with it. h blood transfusions. I do think the bloodless technologies are awesome though.
Manny
Consider this, if some told you to abstain from drinking Scotch whiskey (drinking or eating it), would you then reason that it was perfectly viable to take it intravenously? would your conscience allow for that? And this is the important thing that i do not really think people appreciate, is that it is a conscience based decision, regardless of the dangers of taking blood products, regardless of the medical procedures, regardless of the human rights, it is a conscience based decision that should be respected if not agreed upon or even understood.
yes bloodless technologies are excellent, but we aint seen nothing yet, once whole organs are able to be produced from stem cells and nano-technologies are implemented, the results in medical science shall be unprecedented.
Originally posted by robbie carrobielots of hospitals allow you to bank your own blood, is that permissable?
perhaps because it can be a very emotive subject, people are a little reluctant to discuss it, for it can be subject to accusation and sensationalism. you are correct Manny, there is biblical grounds for the adoption of the religious belief, as you have mentioned, not only in the Hebrew scriptures, but in the Christian Greek Scriptures as well. It ...[text shortened]... ls and nano-technologies are implemented, the results in medical science shall be unprecedented.
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Originally posted by dueceryou mean prior to elective surgery, i think its a matter of conscience. believe me Deucer, there are hopsitals in the U.K that use almost five or six times the amount of blood of other hospitals, for it also depends largely on the skill of the surgeon and the technology available. Often its not so much that the techniques are no there or available, its just that the medical fraternity sometimes need their minds opened to alternatives.
lots of hospitals allow you to bank your own blood, is that permissable?
For example, there was a case of a school friend, she was bleeding internally after pregnancy and her blood count was quite low, and they were determined to give her blood, however it was pointed out , that there is a procedure called hypotensive anaesthesia, where the patients blood pressure is reduced, so that the blood can congeal itself, believe it or not the drugs were bought over the counter at the chemist, administered and the patient made a full recovery. its not that the physicians was unaware of the procedure, its just that they needed their mind opened to alternatives.
Originally posted by menace71Hey Manny. It would certianly help clear up things if there were a scripture that says to not take blood transfusions, but there isn't. So all we can do is take the scriptures we do have and with God's spirit directing us to see if anything the Bible says about blood would apply to this.
Yeah that was kinda low but explain it for us. galveston said he did in another thread but I don't remember it. How do we get an old testament command not to eat blood from an animal to do not get a blood transfusion? Yes we are very blessed in America despite our greed and what ever else we can say. Wealth beyond measure. I still love America. God did inde ...[text shortened]... s but there is risk in living. Maybe some medical people can weigh in on this subject.
Manny
But there is a scripture that sheds some more light about blood. That is Acts 15:22, 28,29. You'll notice that it says to "abstain from blood" here again as other scriptures also say in the bible. Notice it's not saying not to eat it as other scriptures say, but to abstain from it. And knowing what we now know about blood it is not even safe to touch without protection as any doctor would.
But that is more of a physicle reason to not use or touch blood even though these scriptures show it is a direct command to abstain from blood. It would seem that with God's wisdom and forethought knowing that in the future something like a blood transfusion might come to be, he would have said something or left it open for us to use blood for another reason then for food or for sacrifices. We know that alot of the Bible was written with the future in mind so it would not be out of the question for God not to expect this situation somehow. That is just my personal thought.
But it is the sanctity of blood that one really needs to understand. What blood is to God and the value it has......
I'll continue later as I have to run some errands. Be back soon.
Originally posted by galveston75With Gods wisdom and forethought, and your knowledge of the Bible.
Hey Manny. It would certianly help clear up things if there were a scripture that says to not take blood transfusions, but there isn't. So all we can do is take the scriptures we do have and with God's spirit directing us to see if anything the Bible says about blood would apply to this.
But there is a scripture that sheds some more light about blood. ...[text shortened]... he value it has......
I'll continue later as I have to run some errands. Be back soon.
What does God say of the internet, cars, planes, computers, space travel, satellites, CO2 emissions, global warming etc etc??
By the way, physical.......not physicle.
Originally posted by Proper Knobi can answer each and every one of your questions Noobster, but as it was not addressed to me, i shall refrain, but if you need more guidance old thing, we are your humble and obedient servants.
With Gods wisdom and forethought, and your knowledge of the Bible.
What does God say of the internet, cars, planes, computers, space travel, satellites, CO2 emissions, global warming etc etc??
By the way, physical.......not physicle.
Originally posted by Proper KnobThanks for the spelling lesson. I've mentioned before my eyes aren't so good so you'll see more mistakes...
With Gods wisdom and forethought, and your knowledge of the Bible.
What does God say of the internet, cars, planes, computers, space travel, satellites, CO2 emissions, global warming etc etc??
By the way, physical.......not physicle.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI was wondering what Galvestons response was going to be, but his response to my last question for him
i can answer each and every one of your questions Noobster, but as it was not addressed to me, i shall refrain, but if you need more guidance old thing, we are your humble and obedient servants.
'I'm not wasting my time on you'.
Imagine if that was Jesus attitude at the sermon on the mount. Shocking attitude from a Christian.
Originally posted by Proper KnobIf you are here to possible learn that would be one thing but when post after post all you do is criticize then yes I feel I personally am waisting time responding to you. If you have a change of heart, I'm here to talk to you.
I was wondering what Galvestons response was going to be, but his response to my last question for him
'I'm not wasting my time on you'.
Imagine if that was Jesus attitude at the sermon on the mount. Shocking attitude from a Christian.