Memory in heaven?

Originally posted by Nemesio


And, this does not have a permissive air to it (like a guidline),
it has an instructive air to it: Do not be yoked....

Nemesio

You're not following the rules, Nemesio. All true Christians know that suggestive wording in the Bible can only be proof for, not against. Didn't you read the handbook?

... --- ...

Originally posted by Nemesio
This is what you said:

I'm telling you why God told us to marry other Christians.

If God tells you to do something, that doesn't sound like a
'should' to me. It sounds like a 'need.'

Don't you agree?

And, furthermore, I don't see any references to marriage; indeed,
the reference in 2 Cor 6:14-18 has to do with general rel ...[text shortened]... ve air to it (like a guidline),
it has an instructive air to it: Do not be yoked....

Nemesio

Paul spoke out vehemently against any law but Jesus Christ, do you think he would then give us laws for salvation?

And I should have said advised, rather than told. He wants our well being. There is no law but Jesus Christ, for salvation.

Originally posted by Darfius
And I should have said advised, rather than told. He wants our well being. There is no law but Jesus Christ, for salvation.

You then take the words 'Do not be yoked...' to mean
'It is better not to be yoked....'

Is that a fair summary of your position?

Nemesio

You might have missed my other query.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Ok. Hold on. I am definitely confused.

Above, you agreed with the following statement:

What I mean is that if I had a grandfather in heaven, he wouldn't be able to see me sin or know about me sinning on Earth, for that would sadden him.

In agreeing with this, I understood a causal relationship: the
reason that the Dr's grandfather couldn't see him was because it
would sadden him.

If it saddens God or the angels when we sin, and that this is ok,
then why isn't it ok for dead people to see us sinning and be sad
about it?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
You might have missed my other query.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Ok. Hold on. I am definitely confused.

Above, you agreed with the following statement:

What I mean is that if I had a grandfather in heaven, he wouldn't be able to see me sin or know about me sinning on Earth, for that would sadden him.

In agreeing with this, I u ...[text shortened]... is ok,
then why isn't it ok for dead people to see us sinning and be sad
about it?

Nemesio

Where is your support in Scripture that dead people are in Heaven right now?

Originally posted by Darfius
I wouldn't give up my salvation for anyone. Ever. And Jesus commands us to love Him more than anyone else.

Darfius (from the “What has God done to you” thread):

Do you have someone you love? That should already outweigh anything. (italics mine)

From the “Memory in Heaven?” thread:

vistesd: Have you not yet loved someone so much that you would not only risk your salvation, but give them your place in heaven if that were necessary and possible? (I recall someplace in his letters where Paul said he would give up his place in the kingdom for others; I have been searching, but haven't found it yet. Do you know the verse?)

Darfius: I wouldn't give up my salvation for anyone. Ever.

Romans 9:3 For I was praying (wishing, longing) myself to be a curse, cut off (separated) from Christ on behalf of my brothers, my kinsman according to the flesh.

Darfius: And Jesus commands us to love Him more than anyone else.

I assume you’re referring to the following verse specifically: “Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me…” (Matthew 10:37)

************************************************************************

I declare here, that if the only way my beloved wife could have a place in heaven is to have mine, it is hers (though she would never ask or wish it of me). I call that love. I do not call it worthiness, or nobility, or goodness, or anything but love; and if that makes me unworthy of Christ, then I am unworthy of Christ.

No one has larger (greater) love than this, to lay down one's soul (psyche: soul, life, inner-most being) for one's friends. (John 15:13)

I hope that one day you, and everyone, finds such a love.

(Sorry it took me so long to return to this topic, late in the thread, but it has consumed me all day.)

Originally posted by Darfius
Where is your support in Scripture that dead people are in Heaven right now?

I've given it in the passages from St Luke. The angels are clearly
not rejoicing (in the presence of themselves), God isn't rejoicing (for
the sentence would read, 'God rejoiced...' not, 'there was rejoicing
in heaven...'😉.

In any event, you agreed (absolutely) with the following assertion:

If I had a grandfather in heaven, he wouldn't be able to see me sin or know about me sinning on Earth, for that would sadden him.

Yet, you admit that God and the Angels are saddened by their
observing of your and my sin.

How do you reconcile the assertion with the admission?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
I've given it in the passages from St Luke. The angels are clearly
not rejoicing (in the presence of themselves), God isn't rejoicing (for
the sentence would read, 'God rejoiced...' not, 'there was rejoicing
in heaven...'😉.

In any event, you agreed (absolutely) with the following assertion:

[i]If I had a grandfather in heaven, he wouldn't be ...[text shortened]... serving of your and my sin.

How do you reconcile the assertion with the admission?

Nemesio

Easily, he said 'If'. Reconciled.

And the dogs could be rejoicing. Or some species other than humans. You're putting assumption into Scripture.

Originally posted by vistesd
[b]Darfius (from the “What has God done to you” thread):

Do you have someone you love? That should already outweigh anything. (italics mine)

From the “Memory in Heaven?” thread:

vistesd: Have you not yet loved someone so much that you would not only risk your salvation, but give them your place in heaven if that were necessary and ...[text shortened]... it took me so long to return to this topic, late in the thread, but it has consumed me all day.)[/b]

I have such a love. Jesus Christ. I would lay down my life for Him.

Originally posted by Darfius
Easily, he said 'If'. Reconciled.

What?

I am saying, how do you justify the idea that dead people
cannot see or observe sin but that the angels and God can?

And the dogs could be rejoicing. Or some species other than humans. You're putting assumption into Scripture.

Well, seeing as there isn't much reference to the salvation of dogs,
I'd say that my theory is a better one, wouldn't you? And, as for
some other species, it seems like you are inventing a new race of
beings instead of accepting the obvious conclusion that there are
people up in heaven rejoicing at the idea that someone turned to
God.

Nemesio

Originally posted by vistesd
No one has larger (greater) love than this, to lay down one's soul (psyche: soul, life, inner-most being) for one's friends. (John 15:13)

It doesn't say 'lay down your life for Jesus.' It says, lay down your
life for your friends.

I think that vistesd's analysis of this Scripture is the most theologically
coherent.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Darfius
I have such a love. Jesus Christ. I would lay down my life for Him.

Well said. I accept that with the sincerity in which I believe it was "spoken."

I think we have been talking around one another a bit here today (not intentionally), but you certainly made my brain work (that's good for me, except that my brain is now creamed corn!).

Talking with Darfius is like talking to a superball, he bouces around so much. I'm beginning to think that he's ADD.

... --- ...

Originally posted by Darfius
I have such a love. Jesus Christ. I would lay down my life for Him.

You know, I think St Peter said this once........

I know both you and he believed it, but this is a very, very tall order.
I wouldn't bandy such words about so freely, frankly.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
It doesn't say 'lay down your life for Jesus.' It says, lay down your
life for your friends.

I think that vistesd's analysis of this Scripture is the most theologically
coherent.

Nemesio

Aha, Nephew! You have stirred the creamed corn of my brain back into life!

Thanks. I still have a lot to reflect on about this, but I didn't know until to day that psuche was the word usually translated as "life" in that passage--psuche being the word commonly translated as soul.

I'm thinking about human love mirroring divine love, etc. Oh...creamed corn again! Tomorrow maybe...

My compliment to Darfius still stands: He's been a good "ping-pong" partner for me today. 🙂