Originally posted by Darfius
The only thing I see is the thing about angels not having free will. What I meant is complete free will. He didn't want the angels love (though of course they give it), He wanted their servitude. He wanted our love.

Exactly, if an angel has no free will how can it reject god?

I think you will need to clarify what you mean by not having complete free will. The way I see it, either you have it or you don't. Free will by its very nature should mean that there is no middle ground.

Originally posted by Jay Peatea
Exactly, if an angel has no free will how can it reject god?

I think you will need to clarify what you mean by not having complete free will. The way I see it, either you have it or you don't. Free will by its very nature should mean that there is no middle ground.

Well, who is more likely to reject God, an angel who can see Him or a human who can't and uses it as an excuse?

Originally posted by Darfius
Well, who is more likely to reject God, an angel who can see Him or a human who can't and uses it as an excuse?

Off the top of my head I can only think of two angels Gabriel & Satan so that makes about them about 50% I'm not sure about humans but in the paper the otherday they said that 45% of americans reject the concept of evolution in favour of intelligent design. So statistically (+/- 10 % ) I'd say it was about evenish 🙂

Joking aside did you follow the logic on the fallen angels ?
Look I'm not say abanion your faith. All I'm saying is that you need to review what they taught you in sunday school. Effectively you have been brain wash into believing it all hook line and sinker. Its like a larger version of the old santa gag that we tell little kids except nobody can tell you for certain if he exists or not. Monty python in the film The Life of Brian got it right " You need to think for yourself, You've got to work it out for yourself.".
One of the reasons that I think buddism is a far superior religion to christianity or islam is because you are supposed to test the teachings to see that they are true, rather than blindly following what the priest tell you.

Originally posted by Jay Peatea
Off the top of my head I can only think of two angels Gabriel & Satan so that makes about them about 50% I'm not sure about humans but in the paper the otherday they said that 45% of americans reject the concept of evolution in favour of intelligent design. So statistically (+/- 10😵 I'd say it was about evenish 🙂

Actually, I am in favor of both evolution and intelligent design. Good thing they didn't poll me; I would have broken the polling machine!

... --- ...

Originally posted by Jay Peatea
Off the top of my head I can only think of two angels Gabriel & Satan so that makes about them about 50% I'm not sure about humans but in the paper the otherday they said that 45% of americans reject the concept of evolution in favour of intelligent design. So statistically (+/- 10 % ) I'd say it was about evenish 🙂

Joking aside did you follow the l ...[text shortened]... the teachings to see that they are true, rather than blindly following what the priest tell you.

Off the top of my head I can only think of two angels Gabriel & Satan so that makes about them about 50% I'm not sure about humans but in the paper the otherday they said that 45% of americans reject the concept of evolution in favour of intelligent design. So statistically (+/- 10 % ) I'd say it was about evenish 🙂

Two thirds of the host of heaven sided with God. That's roughly 67 percent. Most people (like I used to) reject evolution because they see it as mutually exclusive to God. If they learned how Genesis perfectly describes evolution, they'd change their vote.

Joking aside did you follow the logic on the fallen angels ?

Not at all.

Look I'm not say abanion your faith. All I'm saying is that you need to review what they taught you in sunday school. Effectively you have been brain wash into believing it all hook line and sinker. Its like a larger version of the old santa gag that we tell little kids except nobody can tell you for certain if he exists or not. Monty python in the film The Life of Brian got it right " You need to think for yourself, You've got to work it out for yourself.".

I have never once been to Sunday school. I don't know if you registered this last time I said it, but I came to Christianity through research, no one "fed" me anything.

One of the reasons that I think buddism is a far superior religion to christianity or islam is because you are supposed to test the teachings to see that they are true, rather than blindly following what the priest tell you.

5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1st Thessalonians



What were you saying about buddhism?

Originally posted by Darfius

[b]Off the top of my head I can only think of two angels Gabriel & Satan so that makes about them about 50% I'm not sure about humans but in the paper the otherday they said that 45% of americans reject the concept of evolution in favour of intelligent design. So statistically (+/- 10 % ) I'd say it was about evenish 🙂

Two thirds of the host of h ...[text shortened]... hold fast that which is good.
1st Thessalonians



What were you saying about buddhism?[/b]

I dont see how Genisis completly describes evouloution, for example, God says "He" created it all in 7 days, Evoulution says "no one" created it, and it took billions of years, evoutionist, say the grand canyion took millions of years for it to form, Creationist say the Great Flood did it, Evoution says that man came from a monkey, Creation says God created the first man, (dont tell me Adam was a monkey) I dont see how you can see how Genisis describes evoulution, show me where it does though, and i'll study it out.

Cheers Ben

Originally posted by flyUnity
I dont see how Genisis completly describes evouloution, for example, God says "He" created it all in 7 days, Evoulution says "no one" created it, and it took billions of years, evoutionist, say the grand canyion took millions of years ...[text shortened]... ow me where it does though, and i'll study it out.

Cheers Ben

www.godandscience.org

It makes more sense if you read the Hebrew.

Originally posted by Darfius
Dead people is [b]your logical choice. Not mine. Quit treating conjecture as fact, please.[/b]

Explain to me how either dogs or invented beings is a more logical
choice than people already in heaven?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Darfius
Yes, it could include someone else. However, I love Jesus more than all of my other friends and family.

You write 'it could include someone else.'

This is wrong. It does include someone else. Jesus says very
clearly:

This is my commandment: love one another as I love you.
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for
one's friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you.
St John 15:12-14

It necessarily means someone other than Jesus (though it certainly
doesn't exclude Him). But to argue that it 'might' or 'could' is to
entirely misunderstand this passage. He is talking to His Disciples
about what their relationship with each other must be.

It is about sacrifice. Visteds has it on the money. To sacrifice himself
for his wife is the height of Christian love.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Explain to me how either dogs or invented beings is a more logical
choice than people already in heaven?

Nemesio

We know from Scripture that dead people (if they are even in heaven) do NOT have their glorified bodies yet, and then to make the leap that they are omnipresent is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Nemesio
You write 'it could include someone else.'

This is wrong. It [b]does include someone else. Jesus says very
clearly:

This is my commandment: love one another as I love you.
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for
one's friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you.
St John 15:1 ...[text shortened]... t on the money. To sacrifice himself
for his wife is the height of Christian love.

Nemesio[/b]

'Life'. Not 'soul'. Shall I pull out Scripture for this or will you concede?

Originally posted by Darfius
Yes, [St Peter] died for Christ. Upside down, no less.

St Peter also denied Christ three times after attesting to his fidelity
to Him and His cause.

That is, the rock upon which the church was built wavered multiple
times when Jesus was right there with him.

So, if I seem a little doubtful that you or anyone would be willing to
wantonly lay down your life for Jesus, please forgive me. I think of
St Peter as a better man than most.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Darfius
'Life'. Not 'soul'. Shall I pull out Scripture for this or will you concede?

The word in Greek is psyche. That means 'soul, life, essence,
essential being.' Basically, it means 'everything you got.'

Look it up in Greek before you start asserting that you understand
Scripture.

Do YOU concede?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Darfius
Two thirds of the host of heaven sided with God. That's roughly 67 percent. Most people (like I used to) reject evolution because they see it as mutually exclusive to God. If they learned how Genesis perfectly describes evolution, they'd change their vote.

Um. Where in Scripture does it say that 2/3s of heaven sided with
God?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
St Peter also denied Christ three times after attesting to his fidelity
to Him and His cause.

That is, the rock upon which the church was built wavered multiple
times when Jesus was right there with him.

So, if I seem a little doubtful that you or anyone would be willing to
wantonly lay down your life for Jesus, please forgive me. I think of
St Peter as a better man than most.

Nemesio

That is conjecture that Peter was the rock that Jesus built the church on. It's Catholic, heretical conjecture. The Holy Spirit was the rock.

Wantonly? What gave you that impression? I would only do it if I was faced with the option of denying Him or procaliming Him proudly, much like Peter at his death.