11 Mar 05
Originally posted by thesonofsaulWho claims God? We claim God is our Lord and master. Your god is a figment of your imagination. He is who you want him to be. Loving enough to make you, but not fair enough to punish those who abuse his creation.
There is no Christian God. There is only God. Or are you saying that a mere human or group of humans can claim God as property?
And as for my previous comment, there was no claim involved, only the common sense argument that inability to prove one thing cannot assist the proof of another. In other words, if we cannot even prove our own existence, ...[text shortened]... ve in God because I need Him in my life. There is no proof, nor should there be.
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My God is logical, loving, fair, and spoke to His creation.
11 Mar 05
No, your God is a figment. Gee, how I love a mature discussion.
And you don't claim God as your lord and master. You claim the Bible as your lord and master, and the church as the only voice that can traslate commands from this paper idol.
This is not about God ability to punish. It is about what is a punishable offense. God is not human. God is God. He does not feel spite, hatred, jealousy, or disgust, like the human-like tyrant your paper prop seems to suggest.
I am getting more and more upset about your need to insert your own misconseptions about me into what I say. If you have any questions about what I believe, ask. Please don't assume. You may find that we have a good many beliefs in common.
And you wonder why so few people like you in this forum.
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11 Mar 05
Originally posted by thesonofsaulGod is my Lord and Master. There, just did it. By the way, I'm not Catholic. I interpret the Bible for myself. Though there's not much interpretation, it's pretty straightforward.
No, your God is a figment. Gee, how I love a mature discussion.
And you don't claim God as your lord and master. You claim the Bible as your lord and master, and the church as the only voice that can traslate commands from this paper idol.
This is not about God ability to punish. It is about what is a punishable offense. God is not human. Go ...[text shortened]... beliefs in common.
And you wonder why so few people like you in this forum.
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Oh but He IS all-loving, eh? Tell me, why is that human emotion applied to your god?
11 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusWe use the word "love" to mean so many things. In truth, love is just the closest concept I have for what I feel for God and what I hope he feels for me. I cannot truly apply the human Eglish language concept of love to God. All that I know is that when I open up my heart and give up myself, I feel something spectacular. I call this love, for I am a very limited creature as we all are, but it is something far greater than anything that I can every hope to comprehend in this life.
God is my Lord and Master. There, just did it. By the way, I'm not Catholic. I interpret the Bible for myself. Though there's not much interpretation, it's pretty straightforward.
Oh but He IS all-loving, eh? Tell me, why is that human emotion applied to your god?
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11 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusI guess you don't want to have a fair discussion, then.
I'd like you to prove that you exist. Right now I'm taking a leap of faith that you do. You could be a computer automotan.
You want me to accept your assumptions, but won't accept mine.
If you would be unwilling to believe I exist, then there is no way
that you could prove God exists.
I will accept only my above terms: for every assumption based on
faith you ask me to make, I will ask you to make one.
This sounds totally fair to me. If you feel it is unfair, then please tell
me why.
Nemesio
11 Mar 05
2 edits
Originally posted by DarfiusHere is an example of paragraph where I believe that some sort of fabrication exists
Why exactly do you think the information in the NT is somewhat fabricated? What is your basis? Have you exhaustively studied it (both secular and Christian scholars)? Do you reject it because it contains somewhat spectacular claims? W ...[text shortened]... HOULD a God make? "I can jump higher than you?"
[/b]
Luke 7 11-15
7:11 And it came to pass the day after, that he went into a city called Nain; and many of his disciples went with him, and much people.
7:12 Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.
7:13 And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not.
7:14 And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare [him] stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise.
7:15 And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.
I have to say that I doubt that something like this can happen that way. A practical alternative could be that Jesus was versed in some sort of ancient version of CPR (laying on hands?) and in that respect yes maybe he did bring back to life somebody from death. It would only take a relatively minor number of people too passed this story on to one an another (chinese whispers fashion) for the story to become less accurate, and more exaggerated. Even if it the event was written some years after it happen by a person who had witnessed it, the story would be marginally different.
Also there would have undoubtly been some sort of editing to make the feat more wonderous, and thus more appealing to attract members. It is afterall a fairly natural (& common) thing for a leader or somebody in power to do this.
11 Mar 05
Originally posted by thesonofsaulThat was the most beautiful complete gibberish I've seen in a long time.
We use the word "love" to mean so many things. In truth, love is just the closest concept I have for what I feel for God and what I hope he feels for me. I cannot truly apply the human Eglish language concept of love to God. All that I know is that when I open up my heart and give up myself, I feel something spectacular. I call this love, for I am ...[text shortened]... thing far greater than anything that I can every hope to comprehend in this life.
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11 Mar 05
Originally posted by NemesioEverything requires faith, Nemesio. That is the point I am trying to make.
I guess you don't want to have a fair discussion, then.
You want me to accept your assumptions, but won't accept mine.
If you would be unwilling to believe I exist, then there is no way
that you could prove God exists.
I will accept only my above terms: for every assumption based on
faith you ask me to make, I will ask you to make one.
This sounds totally fair to me. If you feel it is unfair, then please tell
me why.
Nemesio
11 Mar 05
Originally posted by Jay PeateaSo even given the premise that God exists and Jesus was God incarnate, you can only believe that story if Jesus used CPR to bring him back?
Here is an example of paragraph where I believe that some sort of fabrication exists
Luke 7 11-15
7:11 And it came to pass the day after, that he went into a city called Nain; and many of his disciples went with him, and much people.
7:12 Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mot ...[text shortened]... . It is afterall a fairly natural (& common) thing for a leader or somebody in power to do this.