Originally posted by robbie carrobieFunny. When you are being labelled Christian, then you are dead scared that people will associate you with "killing and mass murder!" So you are ashamed of being labelled Christian?
well what do people associate Christianity with? killing and mass murder! huge ostentatious buildings and fabulous wealth while parishioners are destitute! greed and moral corruption! yes you can rest assured that i would not want to be associated with such things. If on the other hand, they think of the Christ, self sacrificing, benevolent, loving and kind, forgiving and empathetic, then yes, i would acquiesce.
When someone label me Scandinabian, I'm assured of that the just know that I'm from a the Scandinavian culture, speak some Scandinavian language, and that's about it. And even that they can be sure of. (There are other languages in Scandinavia that perhaps I have as my mother tounge, and I might be an immigrant not speaking Scandinavian at all, not sharing the culture with all other Scandinavians living here.) But I'm not scare to death what my ancestors the Viking did or didn't do and will burden me. Not at all.
You are the first Christian (sorry), moreover a fundamentalist (sorry again), who doesn't like to be called exactly what he is, because he is ashamed of what people might think of him...
Originally posted by galveston75your argument amounts moral equivocation. who are you to decide which sins are acceptable? You admitted yourself that we all sin; if we all sin, then none of us should be allowed in church. Its the hieght of hypocracy to condemn someone for one sin, while you yourself live in sin.
Again we all sin daily. Who of us don't think about things that we shouldn't? Who of us have not been tempted to steal something at work? Just a pen or two? Have you never gotten so mad at someone that you wished they didn't exist? Have you never looked at another man or woman in a way you shouldn't? Do you go to church as the Bible commands? Accidently ...[text shortened]... the elders to keep the congregations clean and expel ones that could cause harm to them.
"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23
I find it interesting that the 2 real hotbutton issues in Christian churches (abortion and homosexuality) where NEVER discussed by Christ anywhere in his ministry
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Originally posted by FabianFnasmy ancestors were also Vikings, for my father was north east coast of Scotland, but the Vikings did not pretend to be anything else, did they? thus with nominal Christianity, what you have is a semblance, an unreality, a mock form, T.V evangelists, publicly weeping for their sins, and coining it in.
Funny. When you are being labelled Christian, then you are dead scared that people will associate you with "killing and mass murder!" So you are ashamed of being labelled Christian?
When someone label me Scandinabian, I'm assured of that the just know that I'm from a the Scandinavian culture, speak some Scandinavian language, and that's about it. And e be called exactly what he is, because he is ashamed of what people might think of him...
i am not ashamed of what i am, i have killed no one, nor have i defrauded anyone, nor do i live in luxury while my neighbour is in want, nor can i change the evaluations in your mind, I could simply state, call me what you like, i will never deny it, and your perceptions would remain as easily as if i had protested them, therefore go ahead with turning individuals into Jam jars in your labelling factory, if it gives you reassurance or means that you do not need to treat people as individuals for convenience sake, so be it, for it is more a reflection of your dis interest in others than mine.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou are unusual in your opinion.
my ancestors were also Vikings, for my father was north east coast of Scotland, but the Vikings did not pretend to be anything else, did they? thus with nominal Christianity, what you have is a semblance, an unreality, a mock form, T.V evangelists, publicly weeping for their sins, and coining it in.
i am not ashamed of what i am, i have killed n ...[text shortened]... onvenience sake, so be it, for it is more a reflection of your dis interest in others than mine.
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Originally posted by duecerno this is not quite accurate Deucer my friend, Christ upheld the Law, did he not, which had terrible repercussions for both abortion and homosexuality, and while, yes it is true, that the Law code was abolished, the principles remained, thus when asked about divorce for example , Christ clearly quotes from the book of Genesis, and establishes quite clearly what the procedure was.
your argument amounts moral equivocation. who are you to decide which sins are acceptable? You admitted yourself that we all sin; if we all sin, then none of us should be allowed in church. Its the hieght of hypocracy to condemn someone for one sin, while you yourself live in sin.
"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23
I ...[text shortened]... s (abortion and homosexuality) where [b]NEVER discussed by Christ anywhere in his ministry[/b]
However, from the beginning of creation ‘He made them male and female. On this account a man will leave his father and mother, and the two will be one flesh; so that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God yoked together let no man put apart.” When again in the house the disciples began to question him concerning this. And he said to them: “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, and if ever a woman, after divorcing her husband, marries another, she commits adultery.” Mark 10:6-12
homosexuality is conspicuous by its omission, for clearly as far as the law went, it was an immoral act. Christ sets the standard here, no provision for homosexuality is given, for it was clearly an immoral act as far as he was concerned, as the Law stated and as Paul later testifies,
There is no Adam and Steve, nope, simply Adam and Eve, male and female, thus clearly homosexuality is not only an immoral, but an unnatural act, by Gods standards, regardless of how western secularists have tried every means under the sun to portray it otherwise, from speculative genetic arguments, to philosophic ones.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf Christ upheld the law, then Levitical law is still in place. If so, then I would advise you throw away all cotton/poly blend shirts in your closet as it is a sin to where them. Also if you have a garden with more than one kind of fruit or vegetable in it, that is a sin as well.
no this is not quite accurate Deucer my friend, Christ upheld the Law, did he not, which had terrible repercussions for both abortion and homosexuality, and while, yes it is true, that the Law code was abolished, the principles remained, thus when asked about divorce for example , Christ clearly quotes from the book of Genesis, and establishes quite ...[text shortened]... under the sun to portray it otherwise, from speculative genetic arguments, to philosophic ones.
If Christ did abolish the law, at what point do we decide which of God's laws we will follow and which we will abandon?
(sorry for the edits) Christ left us with 2,(3) commandments Love God and Love your neighbor, (honor they mother and father)
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Originally posted by duecernot quite, for commands like, you shall not steal, are still relevant, or you must honour your father and your mother, they are still relevant etc etc etc, they are just embodied in principle in these two laws that you mentioned, note the phrase, 'in principle', thus we do not offer up animal sacrifices, but the principle remains, in that we offer up to God sacrifices with our lips, praise to his name etc etc. its a fascinating field of study, the parallels of the Mosaic law and Christianity. now , throughout the entire body of scripture, homosexuality is clearly condemned, is it not? i do not care about edits, i am not an edit policeman!
If Christ upheld the law, then Levitical law is still in place. If so, then I would advise you throw away all cotton/poly blend shirts in your closet as it is a sin to where them. Also if you have a garden with more than one kind of fruit or vegetable in it, that is a sin as well.
If Christ did abolish the law, at what point do we decide which of God's law ...[text shortened]... left us with 2,(3) commandments Love God and Love your neighbor, (honor they mother and father)
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThat's just the thing Robbie, it isn't clearly condemned. Read in context, the act of rape or prostitution is condemned. I've added a few links which I found interesting. I don't agree with all their points, but I found the perspective illuminating.
not quite, for commands like, you shall not steal, are still relevant, or you must honour your father and your mother, they are still relevant etc etc etc, they are just embodied in principle in these two laws that you mentioned, note the phrase, 'in principle', thus we do not offer up animal sacrifices, but the principle remains, in that we offer up ...[text shortened]... ality is clearly condemned, is it not? i do not care about edits, i am not an edit policeman!
http://www.tobyjohnson.com/cause.html
http://www.christiangay.com/he_loves/sodom.htm
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9094/homosexuality2.html
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Originally posted by dueceractually Duecer i cannot believe anything those persons wrote, like at the first one, Jesus says nothing about homosexuality, therefore its alright, its nonsense, eunuchs are the same as homosexuals in that they are born that way, more nonsense, eunuch was a physical state, not a so called life style choice, and please don't get me started on the genetic argument
That's just the thing Robbie, it isn't clearly condemned. Read in context, the act of rape or prostitution is condemned. I've added a few links which I found interesting. I don't agree with all their points, but I found the perspective illuminating.
http://www.tobyjohnson.com/cause.html
http://www.christiangay.com/he_loves/sodom.htm
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9094/homosexuality2.html
the second one, god did not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality, therefore that makes it aright, utter nonsense, the act is clearly condemned in scripture, both in the Mosaic law and by Paul
the third one was a link to a dating site, but i am already married, so its of no use.
now let us look at what the Bible states and see if we can reason on a few principles
That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error. Romans 1:26,27
mmm, not viewed in a very positive light is it?
What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean, but you have been sanctified, but you have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
yep i think that we can safely say that its quite clearly condemned in this passage
‘And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.' - Leviticus 18:22
not much leeway there, is there?
Now we know that the Law is fine provided one handles it lawfully in the knowledge of this fact, that law is promulgated, not for a righteous man, but for persons lawless and unruly, ungodly and sinners, lacking loving-kindness, and profane, murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, manslayers, fornicators, men who lie with males, kidnappers, liars, false swearers, and whatever other thing is in opposition to the healthful teaching according to the glorious good news of the happy God, with which I was entrusted. 1 Timothy 8:1-11
‘And when a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them.' - Leviticus 20:13
etc etc etc
are we to pick and choose from the Bible like it was some kind of convenience store? yes i like that bit, its convenient for me, oh i don't like Paul, hes not convenient for me?
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut yet with all these warnings directly from God...many including some religious leaders and so called Christian religions, say it's ok..Go ahead and do what you want because Jesus loves you all...
actually Duecer i cannot believe anything those persons wrote, like at the first one, Jesus says nothing about homosexuality, therefore its alright, its nonsense, eunuchs are the same as homosexuals in that they are born that way, more nonsense, eunuch was a physical state, not a so called life style choice, and please don't get me started on the ge yes i like that bit, its convenient for me, oh i don't like Paul, hes not convenient for me?
What a sad state of morals and mentality they've sunk too!!!
Originally posted by galveston75======================
But yet with all these warnings directly from God...many including some religious leaders and so called Christian religions, say it's ok..Go ahead and do what you want because Jesus loves you all...
What a sad state of morals and mentality they've sunk too!!!
Go ahead and do what you want because Jesus loves you all..
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Could you quote me some Christian teachers who take this stance ?
That is that because of the love of Jesus it is Okay for Christians to do whatever they want ?
Some prominent names of teachers who teach this please ?