Michael Jackson / Jesus Christ....

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Are God's arrangements out of date? Are 'his' laws against homosexuality out of date? Undoubtedly. But that's not what I'm after here. I was mainly trying to see if you pick on people equally - do you throw all repetitive sinners out, and not just homosexuals? If so, I can at least credit you with being consistent, even if I don't agree with your moral code.

Others? He admits he sins daily. How much more repetitive can you get? Has he thrown himself out?

Originally posted by duecer
still willful. If we are [b]TRULY in harmony with God, then we won't have "thoughtless" slip ups. See the point? All sin is willful, at least the argument can be made that way. All have fallen short of the Glory of God. It is not your (or anyone elses) place to judge someone elses morality. As Christ said "Judge not lest ye be judged" Each persons sin is ...[text shortened]... ween him/her and God. Disfellowship is a very Pharisee-an thing to do. Good luck with that.[/b]

So it's ok with you to have a openly gay man with their boyfriend, a murderer, a thief, a drunkard, etc, setting next to you at church every week and openly taking about it to everyone that can hear including small children? And the so called priest or whatever saying it's ok to be there? Probably as long as the put money in the collection plate I'm sure...
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Others? He admits he sins daily. How much more repetitive can you get? Has he thrown himself out?

There is still the possibility that his sins aren't the ones on the list.

Originally posted by galveston75
So it's ok with you to have a openly gay man with their boyfriend, a murderer, a thief, a drunkard, etc, setting next to you at church every week and openly taking about it to everyone that can hear including small children? And the so called priest or whatever saying it's ok to be there? Probably as long as the put money in the collection plate I'm sure...
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Sure. Those are the people that Jesus came to save. And what is the purpose of a church if not the redemption of sinners?

Originally posted by Conrau K
Sure. Those are the people that Jesus came to save. And what is the purpose of a church if not the redemption of sinners?

Do you get the point. They don't want to stop praticing the things their doing that is condemed by God.

Originally posted by galveston75
Do you get the point. They don't want to stop praticing the things their doing that is condemed by God.

Again, isn't the point of the church to save sinners? What is the point of a sermon if everyone is already perfect? Surely sinners should be encouraged to enter a church.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Again, isn't the point of the church to save sinners? What is the point of a sermon if everyone is already perfect? Surely sinners should be encouraged to enter a church.

No one is perfect, this is the point, but its the wilful practise of sin that is condemned, not involuntary sin. yes, it is true, we reach out to sinners but if they continue in their course of action, and do not conform their lives and try to bring them into harmony with Biblical standards to the best of their ability, how are they showing repentance, and if they are not showing repentance, through word and deed, than how can they be saved? either they are turning the blood of the Christ into an excuse for loose conduct. or they hold it as of no regard and continue to practice sin, regardless.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No one is perfect, this is the point, but its the wilful practise of sin that is condemned, not involuntary sin. yes, it is true, we reach out to sinners but if they continue in their course of action, and do not conform their lives and try to bring them into harmony with Biblical standards to the best of their ability, how are they showing repentanc ...[text shortened]... use for loose conduct. or they hold it as of no regard and continue to practice sin, regardless.

But that is exactly my point -- if they truly are unrepentent, the church should be there to encourage and exhort them and help them realise their sins. And I should also think that if a homosexual did regularly attend church, the church should appreciate that he at least has the intention to be good.

And as I suggested earlier, a minister is unlikely to know the state of the soul of his congregants. He could not really know for each person whether they have repented from their immorality unless they wear a rainbow sash or wave a placard.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
There is still the possibility that his sins aren't the ones on the list.

This was his position from earlier posts:
"We all sin. But the problem with God is if we practice it or do it willingly.
Rom 1: 24 - 27.
1Cor 6: 9-11.
1 Tim 1: 9 - 11.
Jude 7.
Those who willingly practice such things should never be allowed in God's congegrations. "

"The Bible says those who "practice sin" cannot be a part of his congregations."

So his position is not just about a "list".

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No one is perfect, this is the point, but its the wilful practise of sin that is condemned, not involuntary sin. yes, it is true, we reach out to sinners but if they continue in their course of action, and do not conform their lives and try to bring them into harmony with Biblical standards to the best of their ability, how are they showing repentanc ...[text shortened]... use for loose conduct. or they hold it as of no regard and continue to practice sin, regardless.

Is not gluttony willful?

Is not greed willful?

Is not the wearing of blended garments willful?

Is not the eating of pork, shellfish, etc. willful?

etc.

Originally posted by Conrau K
But that is exactly my point -- if they truly are unrepentent, the church should be there to encourage and exhort them and help them realise their sins. And I should also think that if a homosexual did regularly attend church, the church should appreciate that he at least has the intention to be good.

And as I suggested earlier, a minister is unlikely t ...[text shortened]... ther they have repented from their immorality unless they wear a rainbow sash or wave a placard.

perhaps in the Catholic church or elsewhere, i do not know, but the scriptures clearly indicate that a shepherd (elder), should know and look after the flock and know its appearance!

You ought to know positively the appearance of your flock. Set your heart to your droves, Proverbs 27:23

Originally posted by galveston75
So it's ok with you to have a openly gay man with their boyfriend, a murderer, a thief, a drunkard, etc, setting next to you at church every week and openly taking about it to everyone that can hear including small children? And the so called priest or whatever saying it's ok to be there? Probably as long as the put money in the collection plate I'm sure...
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At least here you've stopped trying to use the Bible as a weapon to further your bigotry and have shown the underlying reasons for your position however irrational.

Whether you want to admit it or not, homosexuals ARE your neighbors. And Jesus commands that you love them.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Is not gluttony willful?

Is not greed willful?

Is not the wearing of blended garments willful?

Is not the eating of pork, shellfish, etc. willful?

etc.

what is it my friend that you do not understand between wilful sin and involuntary sin? if a person is gluttonous, then he shall be helped, again and again to help him overcome his gluttony, with Gods holy spirit he can readily over come this habit and bridging his life into accordance with biblical principles. Blended garments, shell fish, pork etc etc are part of the Mosaic law, which in practise has become obsolete and has been replaced by a greater covenant or agreement, although the principles remain valid,

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
At least here you've stopped trying to use the Bible as a weapon to further your bigotry and have shown the underlying reasons for your position however irrational.

Whether you want to admit it or not, homosexuals ARE your neighbors. And Jesus commands that you love them.

yes but we are under no duress to love their actions, nor condone them, nor are we under duress to sanctify them under the misguided pretence that it is loving to do so!

“Let us do the bad things that the good things may come”? The judgment against those men is in harmony with justice. Romans 3:8

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what is it my friend that you do not understand between wilful sin and involuntary sin? if a person is gluttonous, then he shall be helped, again and again to help him overcome his gluttony, with Gods holy spirit he can readily over come this habit and bridging his life into accordance with biblical principles. Blended garments, shell fish, pork et ...[text shortened]... and has been replaced by a greater covenant or agreement, although the principles remain valid,

" if a person is gluttonous, then he shall be helped, again and again to help him overcome his gluttony, with Gods holy spirit he can readily over come this habit and bridging his life into accordance with biblical principles.

Do you allow them to remain in your congregation? If so, why is it different for homosexuals?

"Blended garments, shell fish, pork etc etc are part of the Mosaic law, which in practise has become obsolete and has been replaced by a greater covenant or agreement, although the principles remain valid,"

You are the one who claimed that you cannot "pick and choose".

Earlier you posted the following:
"yep i think that we can safely say that its quite clearly condemned in this passage

‘And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.' - Leviticus 18:22

not much leeway there, is there?"

So you cite Levitical Law when it furthers your bigotry, yet dismiss it as "replaced by a greater covenant" when it isn't. Explain how the "principle" of wearing blended garments remains valid? Explain how this isn't "picking and choosing".