Originally posted by checkbaiterWhat you are describing is a method or a process. You never hit the nail on the head... its all a pile of waffle, straw and fluff
Adhering to a set of doctrines does not make you a Christian. Sitting in a church does not make you a Christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes you a car.
The only way you can become a Christian is to receive and make Jesus your Lord and have Him change your heart.
It is an internal change, a change in nature. This is what will transform a life ...[text shortened]... he mind and learning who you are in Christ is what results in the more than abundant life today.
The end result of all Christian activity should be adhering to the commandments of Christ, and it is this one thing that will determine whether or not someone is accepted into Gods Kingdom.
Faith alone is DEAD.
Words and talk is cheap .. like proclamations that ' I have Christ" or "Im a sinner and I need Christ'
Claiming you have Holy Spirit gifts is similarly empty and useless.
The greatest of all virtues is CHARITY.
Christ will judge at the appropriate time who qualifies and who are just talkers.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For :
- I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
- I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
- I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
- Naked, and ye clothed me:
- I was sick, and ye visited me:
- I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(Mat 25:34-36) [ALL WORKS OF CHARITY]
These enter the Kingdom of God. Others are cast into the lake of fire BECAUSE THEY FAILED TO ACT CHARITABLY:
[i]- I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
- I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
- I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
- naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and
- in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Mat 25:41-43)
These are the teachings of Jesus Christ, the man you profess to know with your mouth but your words deny Him. Your words are words of the false Christian who cannot truthfully repeat what Christ preached about good works. You deny Christ's teachings, and instead preach the doctrine of men.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI wouldn't give up my seat on a bus to god himself
My favorite question on this topic is 'would you give up your seat in heaven to someone else if the option was available'? It seems like the loving thing to do. most people I have asked have declined to give a straight answer usually arguing that the option isn't available so they don't have to think about it.
Originally posted by Rajk999And there you have it folks...the doctrine of Rajk's bible understanding in a nut shell.
What you are describing is a method or a process. You never hit the nail on the head... its all a pile of waffle, straw and fluff
The end result of all Christian activity should be adhering to the commandments of Christ, and it is this one thing that will determine whether or not someone is accepted into Gods Kingdom.
Faith alone is DEAD.
Words and ta ...[text shortened]... preached about good works. You deny Christ's teachings, and instead preach the doctrine of men.
Being "saved" depends on works, and even then, at the end, Christ will decide who is worthy.
Then, if that is so, it makes these verses null and void, not to mention, Christ's Crucifixion was not enough for Rajk......sorry folks, and good luck...
Eph 2:4-8
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
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Eph 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
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Eph 2:11-13
Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh — who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands — 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
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Eph 2:19-22
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
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Rom 10:9-13
if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
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1 Cor 3:15
If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
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Rom 5:1-2
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
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Rom 5:6-7
For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
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There are many, many more, but who would want to read them anyway?
😉
Originally posted by checkbaiterAn understanding of the crucifixion of Christ and who benefited and how they benefited is the source of your confusion. This is why you cannot reconcile the teachings of Christ and the Apostles, You think that they say different things but you are wrong.
And there you have it folks...the doctrine of Rajk's bible understanding in a nut shell.
Being "saved" depends on works, and even then, at the end, Christ will decide who is worthy.
Then, if that is so, it makes these verses null and void, not to mention, Christ's Crucifixion was not enough for Rajk......sorry folks, and good luck...Eph 2:4 ...[text shortened]... godly.
NKJV
There are many, many more, but who would want to read them anyway?
😉
The fact that you only quote from the Apostles mean that you rather Jesus Christ did not preach. Maybe the words of Christ mean that you actually have to do something, help someone, spend some of your money.on someone. Hence the reason why you fabricate such things as the Administration of Grace or New Covenant which you claim starts with the Apostles, effectively casting Christ aside.
Well good luck with that doctrine. Christ will deal with your type.
Originally posted by Rajk999I don't think you have a clue as to who the author of the word of God is.
An understanding of the crucifixion of Christ and who benefited and how they benefited is the source of your confusion. This is why you cannot reconcile the teachings of Christ and the Apostles, You think that they say different things but you are wrong.
The fact that you only quote from the Apostles mean that you rather Jesus Christ did not preach. May ...[text shortened]... ly casting Christ aside.
Well good luck with that doctrine. Christ will deal with your type.
You seem to think some was written by Christ, some by Apostles, etc...
The bible claims holy men of God wrote ALL of it as they were moved by Holy Spirit
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Originally posted by Rajk999You are trying to say that Christ wants zero sins, otherwise there is no eternal life.
You are trying to say that Christ wants zero sins, otherwise there is no eternal life. So although there are such passages which say that, it has to be taken along with other passages about forgiveness.
Forgiveness cancels sins. Those who repent and God forgives their sin, that sin is as good as if it never happened. Certainly that cannot continue and the ...[text shortened]...
So the question is [b]what is the point of forgiveness if the person is still condemned?[/b]
Bigger picture, what is required is transformation into a righteous being: from a "slave" to a "son", from one "born of the flesh" to one "born of the spirit", from a "bad tree" to a "good tree". A "son" no longer commits sin, one "born of the spirit" no longer commits sin, a "good tree" no longer commits sin.
Forgiveness cancels sins
Why do you see those verses that way rather than "the unforgiving will not be forgiven"? This concept fits much better with the passage I cited earlier and the teachings of Jesus as a whole.
So the question is "what is the point of forgiveness if the person is still condemned"?
I don't understand the question. Those who have transformed into righteous beings are not "condemned" and their prior sins have been forgiven.
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOne1. Your 'bigger picture' says the same thing... no difference
[b]You are trying to say that Christ wants zero sins, otherwise there is no eternal life.
Bigger picture, what is required is transformation into a righteous being: from a "slave" to a "son", from one "born of the flesh" to one "born of the spirit", from a "bad tree" to a "good tree". A "son" no longer commits sin, one "born of the spirit" no longe ...[text shortened]... e transformed into righteous beings are not "condemned" and their prior sins have been forgiven.[/b]
2. The unforgiving will not be forgiven AND the forgiving will be forgiven. Why do I see it that way? Christ said it... did he not?
3. Are you ignoring with the Bible says about forgiveness? Forgiveness is for sinners not the righteous. Christ said there are some that will be forgiven. I dont understand your dilemma.
Originally posted by Rajk999Let's look at a passage I cited earlier:
1. Your 'bigger picture' says the same thing... no difference
2. The unforgiving will not be forgiven AND the forgiving will be forgiven. Why do I see it that way? Christ said it... did he not?
3. Are you ignoring with the Bible says about forgiveness? Forgiveness is for sinners not the righteous. Christ said there are some that will be forgiven. I dont understand your dilemma.
John 15
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned...10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
Only those who KEEP Jesus' commandments as HE kept his Father's commandments abide in Jesus. Ask yourself how well Jesus KEPT His father's commandments. Anyone who not does KEEP Jesus' commandments is "cast into the fire".
The way you interpret Matthew 6:14-15, wouldn't there be some who do not KEEP Jesus' commandments that are NOT "cast into the fire"? Was Jesus wrong here?
Let's take another look at Matthew 6:14-15:
Matthew 6
14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
Jesus does not say that "Forgiveness cancels sins" as you claimed.
Matthew 6:14-15 can be looked upon as a commandment of Jesus to be forgiving. Those who KEEP that commandment and all His other commandments abide in Jesus. Those who do not KEEP all of His commandments are "cast into the fire".
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneOK .. got it.
Let's look at a passage I cited earlier:John 15
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned...10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
Only thos ...[text shortened]... andments abide in Jesus. Those who do not KEEP all of His commandments are "cast into the fire".
Originally posted by Rajk999Where you keep getting it wrong is that we are not saved by our works, but saying that is
1. Your 'bigger picture' says the same thing... no difference
2. The unforgiving will not be forgiven AND the forgiving will be forgiven. Why do I see it that way? Christ said it... did he not?
3. Are you ignoring with the Bible says about forgiveness? Forgiveness is for sinners not the righteous. Christ said there are some that will be forgiven. I dont understand your dilemma.
not saying we will not do good works. We will when we become new Creatures in Christ
we change, we are given new life, and we are forgiven. No one here has said that we only
require faith and no works except you, when you try to paint others into claims of bad
doctrine not being said by anyone other than you. We cannot earn our way into God's
grace, but we can accept it and then go through life loving God and each other thereby
preforming good works. You are simply suggesting those here must earn their salvation
by doing good works, not accept Jesus then obeying Him by doing good works.
Originally posted by KellyJayYou would do well, if you are interested in getting into Gods Kingdom, heed the advice contained in the statements from Jesus Christ about who will get in, and why they will get in, and about who will not get in and why they will be cast out.
Where you keep getting it wrong is that we are not saved by our works, but saying that is
not saying we will not do good works. We will when we become new Creatures in Christ
we change, we are given new life, and we are forgiven. No one here has said that we only
require faith and no works except you, when you try to paint others into claims of bad
doct ...[text shortened]... arn their salvation
by doing good works, not accept Jesus then obeying Him by doing good works.
Originally posted by Rajk999I've said as much to you with scripture as well. Those that do not believe according to Jesus
You would do well, if you are interested in getting into Gods Kingdom, heed the advice contained in the statements from Jesus Christ about who will get in, and why they will get in, and about who will not get in and why they will be cast out.
are condemned already, those that do not pick up their crosses and follow Jesus are not
worthy of Him. We must do the works God gives us, and one of the first is to believe, to be
born again.