10 Sep 15
Vengeance. Now there is a term that MUST be a godly thing, right? Let's see. We have here a god who can call in an entire universe of literally thousands of trillions of stars where at least 10 percent of them have planets or more, and out of the hundreds of trillions of stars, only ONE has intelligent life on it. Right.
So this god, having lined up with only a certain few of all the thousands of races on Earth, doesn't like it when ITS chosen ones are attacked by those savages. So this god says I will take VENGEANCE on those savages, they are not worth living, kill the whole bunch of them, women, infants, elderly, (all OBVIOUS enemies) and make slaves out of whomever you want, rape their women, THEN kill them, whatever you want because VENGEANCE is MINE sayeth that REALLY insane god. Sure, it could happen. In some OTHER insane universe.
11 Sep 15
Originally posted by sonhouseToo bad your cynicism blinds you and poisons every thread you post this ignorant crap in.
Vengeance. Now there is a term that MUST be a godly thing, right? Let's see. We have here a god who can call in an entire universe of literally thousands of trillions of stars where at least 10 percent of them have planets or more, and out of the hundreds of trillions of stars, only ONE has intelligent life on it. Right.
So this god, having lined up with ...[text shortened]... NCE is MINE sayeth that REALLY insane god. Sure, it could happen. In some OTHER insane universe.
What's too bad is that the joke's on you, but it's still not very funny.
Originally posted by SuzianneThis post of yours aside, would you say you are generally opposed to ad hominems being used to avoid addressing the substance of someone's post?
Too bad your cynicism blinds you and poisons every thread you post this ignorant crap in.
What's too bad is that the joke's on you, but it's still not very funny.
11 Sep 15
Originally posted by sonhouseYou are too talking about absolute value of moral codes, you are attacking a foundation of
I wasn't talking about the absolute value of moral codes, for instance, in some parts of the world it is moral to cut out a young female's clitoris because they think it makes the woman not want to stray from her husband.
That is clearly a man made moral code, a cultural norm and a decidedly disgusting one at that.
I did not say anything about who doe ...[text shortened]... ty would single us out and make a religion based on people who are the go between's of this god.
one set which are those that have to do with God and gods. If the whole point of your view
is that it is all man made, than man is the issue, man is the root cause, man is the blame,
not God or gods if they are not real.
The only way that religion would not be man's fault would be if there were forces that
were projecting themselves as gods to lead men into doing the evil they are.
If there is an absolute value that would never come from man, because we do not agree
on what is and is not absolute. Even gods would not have an absolute if they disagreed,
the only way you get an absolute is if there is ONE source, being God.
11 Sep 15
Originally posted by KellyJayActually it is possible to have an absolute that doesn't have a 'source'. Much as theists would like to pretend that morality is nothing more than a dictated standard invented by God, that simply isn't the case, nor is it what they actually mean by morality. If one was to ask the question 'is God good', one does not simply ask 'does God meet his own dictated standard'?
Even gods would not have an absolute if they disagreed,
the only way you get an absolute is if there is ONE source, being God.
If you are right and all we need is one source for there to be an absolute standard of morality, then we could equally say that whatever Satan's standard is is ONE source and therefore can be called an absolute standard. But I doubt that you would accept that Satan's actions are moral.
Originally posted by SuzianneCan you Suzianne point to any thread where you were not displaying extreme cynicism and essentially trying to poison the thread? Would you characterize your engagements in this forum as mostly cynical or not?
Too bad your cynicism blinds you and poisons every thread.....
Originally posted by checkbaiterI guess I should say thank you. Could it be that you are not aware that those references speak in support of what I keep saying, and actually contradict the doctrine propagated by you, by KJ, by Sonship and others?
Phil 3:9-10
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may[b] know Him
NKJV
2 Thess 1:8
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,
NKJV
Heb 10:30
For we know Him who said, ...[text shortened]... assurance, he did write, "Now by this we know that we know Him." We are sure that we know.[/i][/b]
I say:it is when someone obeys Christ, follows his commandments, live righteously, practices brotherly love and charity, it is only then that they knows Christ and Christ abides in them and with them. It starts off with faith or belief in Christ and in what Christ preached then comes doing and obeying.
You, KJ, etc make the claim that you know Christ, [KJ has convoluted method of 'knowing Christ' that is not in the Bible], and then you become automatically righteous and do the good works and obey Christ. [If I said it incorrectly please rephrase].
Pauls statement in Phil 3 :9-10, makes the point that his righteousness came from faith in Christ, then came knowing Christ. If you read the rest of Pauls writing you will see long explanations of what believing Christ means and how righteousness comes. John says the same thing.
Its not like youall keep saying that once you accept Christ, Christ says abracadabra and you automatically become righteous.
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11 Sep 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Where you are off base is that you believe that our works cleans us of sin so you promote
I guess I should say thank you. Could it be that you are not aware that those references speak in support of what I keep saying, and actually contradict the doctrine propagated by you, by KJ, by Sonship and others?
I say:it is when someone obeys Christ, follows his commandments, live righteously, practices brotherly love and charity, it is only then that ...[text shortened]... ou accept Christ, Christ says abracadabra and you automatically become righteous.
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others to do good works. Nothing wrong with doing good works, we all need to do them, but
only through Jesus Christ are we saved, that is by faith, a gift of God not of ourselves.
Originally posted by KellyJayIn John 8:31-36, Jesus explains that His true disciples will no longer commit sin. Those who continue to commit sin will not "remain in the house forever". Those who no longer commit sin will "remain in the house forever".
Spell out why you think the scripture you quoted goes against what he wrote, I don't see
the conflict. During the OT times it was all about the Law, there was nothing else. Jesus
was pointing to the only hope we have in this life which is Jesus Christ, to truly follow Him
is to trust in all He has done for the reasons He did them. We are slaves to sin, in Christ
we are free, we are never good enough on our own.
In Ezekiel 18, God explains that those who continue to commit sin "will die". Those who no longer commit sin "will live".
Both of the above fly in the face of what Lemon Lime stated:
"Actually, the gospel (or good news) is needed because no one is able to abide by the rules perfectly and all the time. God isn't interested in good people or perfect people, because in God's eyes these people don't exist. Being good enough in God's eyes means the person is humble enough to admit he isnt good enough, and acknowledges needing God's help and forgiveness."
Both Jesus and God expect man to be not only capable of no longer committing sin, but state that it's required.
As God states in Ezekiel 18:
21“But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22“All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. 23“Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord GOD, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?
11 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIf we sin He is faithful and just to forgive us. It is through Jesus Christ not our efforts that
In John 8:31-36, Jesus explains that His true disciples will no longer commit sin. Those who continue to commit sin will not "remain in the house forever". Those who no longer commit sin will "remain in the house forever".
In Ezekiel 18, God explains that those who continue to commit sin "will die". Those who no longer commit sin "will live".
Both ...[text shortened]... s and God expect man to be not only capable of no longer committing sin, but that it's required.
we are saved. We cannot earn our way into heaven by our own efforts, but through Jesus
Christ we can be saved, it is Jesus who sets us free. On our own without the Son we are
slaves to sin, we are condemned already, there isn't anyone who through just their own
efforts are going to be saved.
John 8: 31-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Very truly, I tell you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. 35 The slave does not have a permanent place in the household; the son has a place there forever. 36 So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.
11 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYou know anyone who on their own has turned away from all of their sins?
In John 8:31-36, Jesus explains that His true disciples will no longer commit sin. Those who continue to commit sin will not "remain in the house forever". Those who no longer commit sin will "remain in the house forever".
In Ezekiel 18, God explains that those who continue to commit sin "will die". Those who no longer commit sin "will live".
Both ...[text shortened]... wicked,” declares the Lord GOD, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?[/quote]
11 Sep 15
Originally posted by KellyJayWrong. You would never find anywhere that I said or implied that works cleans anyone of sin. It is possible for good works to hide or pay for some of your sins, but certainly not enough to gain entry into Gods Kingdom:
Where you are off base is that you believe that our works cleans us of sin so you promote
others to do good works. Nothing wrong with doing good works, we all need to do them, but
only through Jesus Christ are we saved, that is by faith, a gift of God not of ourselves.
James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
Christ death covered the inherited sin of all people. I said before you do not understand what Christ sacrifice was about, and worse you belong to a church that propagates the falsity that Christ died for Christians, or only for those that profess their faith in Christ.
So when Christ died the whole world was cleansed of a particular type of sin. Unfortunately it is NOT FUTURE SINS like you believe, but the inherted sin that came from Adam. Paul says it plain simple language:
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Adam sinned and brought condemnation to all. Christ's righteousness brough life to all, if they choose that option. That is the free gift that mankind did not deserve and no amount of good works could pay for. The Grace of God is the free gift but to qualify you have to live righteously
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (Tit 2:11-13)
Christ is interested in righteousness .. not hypocritical mouth worship.
11 Sep 15
Originally posted by KellyJayI understand the dogma that you espouse.
If we sin He is faithful and just to forgive us. It is through Jesus Christ not our efforts that
we are saved. We cannot earn our way into heaven by our own efforts, but through Jesus
Christ we can be saved, it is Jesus who sets us free. On our own without the Son we are
slaves to sin, we are condemned already, there isn't anyone who through just their o ...[text shortened]... d; the son has a place there forever. 36 So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.
However, God (in Ezekiel 18) and Jesus (in John 8:31-36) espouse something entirely different. Does that not matter to you?
Originally posted by KellyJayAs I showed in Ezekiel 18 and John 8, both God and Jesus expect man to be capable of no longer committing sin. Either you believe God and Jesus or you don't. Why don't you believe them?
You know anyone who on their own has turned away from all of their sins?