1. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    13 May '12 16:51
    An interview with 5 pastors who have continued in that role despite the loss of their faith:
    http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/EP08122150.pdf

    A site devoted to pastors struggling with loss of belief:
    http://clergyproject.org/
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    13 May '12 17:131 edit
    Mother Teresa lost her faith for a long time too. From wiki: "Privately, Mother Teresa experienced doubts and struggles over her religious beliefs which lasted nearly 50 years until the end of her life, during which "she felt no presence of God whatsoever", "neither in her heart or in the eucharist" as put by her postulator Rev. Brian Kolodiejchuk. Mother Teresa expressed grave doubts about God's existence and pain over her lack of faith:

    Where is my faith? Even deep down ... there is nothing but emptiness and darkness ... If there be God—please forgive me. When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven, there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul ... How painful is this unknown pain—I have no Faith. Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal, ... What do I labor for? If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true."


    It does rather shed an ugly light on her ostentatious "theology of suffering" and suffering would bring people closer to Jesus philosophy.
  3. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    13 May '12 19:53
    Originally posted by FMF
    Mother Teresa lost her faith for a long time too. From wiki: "Privately, Mother Teresa experienced doubts and struggles over her religious beliefs which lasted nearly 50 years until the end of her life, during which "she felt no presence of God whatsoever", "neither in her heart or in the eucharist" as put by her postulator Rev. Brian Kolodiejchuk. Mother Teresa ...[text shortened]... ology of suffering" and suffering would bring people closer to Jesus philosophy.
    Yes, it seems the ugly truth is coming out.

    A former nun in her organization:
    http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/shields_18_1.html

    A documentary by Christopher Hitchens:
    YouTube
    YouTube
    YouTube

    Penn and Teller - I only include this because of a shocking comment from a Catholic leader.
    YouTube
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    13 May '12 21:121 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    An interview with 5 pastors who have continued in that role despite the loss of their faith:
    http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/EP08122150.pdf

    A site devoted to pastors struggling with loss of belief:
    http://clergyproject.org/
    So why did they lose their beliefs? Were they false, empty, held no future, misleading, not in the Bible?

    Matthew 23:27
    American Standard Version (ASV)

    27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

    Could this be what they have finally learned?
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    13 May '12 22:13
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    An interview with 5 pastors who have continued in that role despite the loss of their faith:
    http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/EP08122150.pdf

    A site devoted to pastors struggling with loss of belief:
    http://clergyproject.org/
    A pastor without faith, and people sit and listen to these guys why?
    I guess a job is a job and those that are okay with that, are there because?
    Kelly
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
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    13 May '12 22:15
    Originally posted by FMF
    Mother Teresa lost her faith for a long time too. From wiki: "Privately, Mother Teresa experienced doubts and struggles over her religious beliefs which lasted nearly 50 years until the end of her life, during which "she felt no presence of God whatsoever", "neither in her heart or in the eucharist" as put by her postulator Rev. Brian Kolodiejchuk. Mother Teresa ...[text shortened]... ology of suffering" and suffering would bring people closer to Jesus philosophy.
    I don't know if she had a relationship with God or not, if not then I can see why
    she struggled so. If she did have one, I don't see her writing this.
    Kelly
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    13 May '12 22:27
    My father in law that past away many years ago was a Baptist preacher for many years. He too lost his faith. My wife asked him when that happened, why and which was about the same time she began to study with the JW's.
    So she asked why and why he never used the name of God which is Jehovah in his sermons?
    He said he knew that Jehovah was God's name as his own bible said that clearly, but he said they did not want to know it or use that name because it messed up their belief in the trinity and overall they did not want to hear some of the real truths in the Bible.
    He said they only wanted to have their ears tickled with the easy and smooth sounding stuff.
    How incredibly sad..........
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    13 May '12 22:29
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    A pastor without faith, and people sit and listen to these guys why?
    I guess a job is a job and those that are okay with that, are there because?
    Kelly
    I heard one interviewed recently. It's not just a job to anybody who is any good. Apparently the difficulty comes from the degree to which a pastor's life is given over to the calling, pretty much 24/7, hearing and counseling on the most personal of matters. The congregation can feel betrayed. One person who went through this got a lot of hate for it. In a small community the pastor and their family can be shunned and have to leave. There can be, really, nowhere to turn.
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    13 May '12 22:521 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    I heard one interviewed recently. It's not just a job to anybody who is any good. Apparently the difficulty comes from the degree to which a pastor's life is given over to the calling, pretty much 24/7, hearing and counseling on the most personal of matters. The congregation can feel betrayed. One person who went through this got a lot of hate for it. In a sma ...[text shortened]... stor and their family can be shunned and have to leave. There can be, really, nowhere to turn.
    So what?
    Seriously, why would anyone want that job unless there is a call of God on their
    lives? With God the issues anyone can face can either be overcome or with God
    can be gone through. Being a Pastor is one of the most important jobs on the
    planet, having the souls of those under your care who go to your church. If they
    are just doing it for a pay check, the fellowship has a dead in their sins Pastor
    whose focus isn't on what is important, but what is good for the Pastor. People
    have lost their lives over the gospel, going through some heartache doesn't
    compare.
    Kelly
  10. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    15 May '12 19:22
    Originally posted by galveston75
    So why did they lose their beliefs? Were they false, empty, held no future, misleading, not in the Bible?

    Matthew 23:27
    American Standard Version (ASV)

    27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

    Could this be what they have finally learned?
    Read the link to the study in the OP and you'll see why they lost their faith.
  11. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    15 May '12 19:23
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    A pastor without faith, and people sit and listen to these guys why?
    I guess a job is a job and those that are okay with that, are there because?
    Kelly
    The congregations do not know their minister is an unbeliever. The ministers fake it because they can't afford to lose their job, family, and religious friends/community.

    People are not OK with it once they find out. The minister is usually immediately kicked out of the church.
  12. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    15 May '12 19:241 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    So what?
    Seriously, why would anyone want that job unless there is a call of God on their
    lives? With God the issues anyone can face can either be overcome or with God
    can be gone through. Being a Pastor is one of the most important jobs on the
    planet, having the souls of those under your care who go to your church. If they
    are just doing it for a pay
    have lost their lives over the gospel, going through some heartache doesn't
    compare.
    Kelly
    This would be easier if people would read the links. Particularly the first one. 😞

    These people thought that they had the call of God on their lives. They went into the ministry with enthusiasm, only to have their faith deteriorate.
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    15 May '12 19:302 edits
    Originally posted by FMF

    It does rather shed an ugly light on her ostentatious "theology of suffering" and suffering would bring people closer to Jesus philosophy.
    Well, no not really. Her crisis of faith is what the theology of suffering entails.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_dryness

    To a Catholic at least, 'being closer to Jesus' does not at all mean 'being happy, content or satisfied'.
  14. Joined
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    15 May '12 19:51
    Originally posted by FMF
    Mother Teresa lost her faith for a long time too. From wiki: "Privately, Mother Teresa experienced doubts and struggles over her religious beliefs which lasted nearly 50 years until the end of her life, during which "she felt no presence of God whatsoever", "neither in her heart or in the eucharist" as put by her postulator Rev. Brian Kolodiejchuk. Mother Teresa ...[text shortened]... ology of suffering" and suffering would bring people closer to Jesus philosophy.
    So has King David it seems.

    Psalsms 73:3 For I was envious of the arrogant, as I saw the prosperity of the wicked. For there are no pains in their death, and their body is fat. They are not in trouble as other men, nor are they plagued like mankind. Therefore pride is their necklace, the garment of violence covers them. Their eyes bulge from fatness, the imaginations of their heart run riot. They mock, and wickedly speak of oppression. They speak from on high. They have set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongues parades through the earth. Therefore his people return to this place, and waters of abundance are drunk by them. And they say, "How does God know, and is there knowledge with the Most High?" Behold, those are the wicked and always at ease they have increased in wealth. Surely in vain I have kept my heart pure, and washed my hands in innocence. For I have been stricken all day long, and chasitened every morning.

    Go figure.
  15. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    15 May '12 22:02
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    Well, no not really. Her crisis of faith is what the theology of suffering entails.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_dryness

    To a Catholic at least, 'being closer to Jesus' does not at all mean 'being happy, content or satisfied'.
    No worst, there is none. Pitched past pitch of grief,
    More pangs will, schooled at forepangs, wilder wring.
    Comforter, where, where is your comforting?
    Mary, mother of us, where is your relief?
    My cries heave, herds-long; huddle in a main, a chief
    Woe, wórld-sorrow; on an áge-old anvil wince and sing —
    Then lull, then leave off. Fury had shrieked 'No ling-
    ering! Let me be fell: force I must be brief."'

    O the mind, mind has mountains; cliffs of fall
    Frightful, sheer, no-man-fathomed. Hold them cheap
    May who ne'er hung there. Nor does long our small
    Durance deal with that steep or deep. Here! creep,
    Wretch, under a comfort serves in a whirlwind: all
    Life death does end and each day dies with sleep.

    Gerard Manley Hopkins
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