Mystery of the Woman and the Beast of Rev. 17

Revelations 17-18 was predicting the fall of the Roman Empire (written before 100 AD, Rome fell in 4-500AD), it's done with and over.

This was the event that changed the Classical Era to the Dark Ages (Early Middle Ages); with the official Empire in Constantinople, nobody was governing Rome, so the Bishop of Rome stepped in and began the time of Pope temporal power.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Revelations was predicting the fall of the Roman Empire, it's done with and over.

That's okay, when the AntiChrist comes, there will still be a short time to duck and cover. And by duck and cover, I mean get out of the hotzones, stock up on food and water, move out of the cities and find a like-minded group to weather out the last half of the Tribulation with. And if they do eventually catch you, whatever you do, don't take the mark, even if they hold an axe to your neck.

Of course, this all presupposes you'll recognize the AntiChrist for who he is, BEFORE all hell breaks loose.

Originally posted by Suzianne
That's okay, when the AntiChrist comes, there will still be a short time to duck and cover. And by duck and cover, I mean get out of the hotzones, stock up on food and water, move out of the cities and find a like-minded group to weather out the last half of the Tribulation with. And if they do eventually catch you, whatever you do, don't take the mark, e ...[text shortened]... all presupposes you'll recognize the AntiChrist for who he is, BEFORE all hell breaks loose.

Do you actually believe this? I'm not joking, I really want to know. You don't take this as metaphorical, but as a factual prediction?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Look at the greed in the US financial sector, the 99%'ers rising up in protest in the Occupy Wall Street movement, the widespread belief that US politicians are nothing more than liars and opportunists, and the obscene amounts of money being made and horded by the top 1% in the US during an economic downturn, along with the extreme poverty of most of the wo country.

BTW, I didn't say the US was guilty of persecuting Christians. Not YET, anyway.

Who has the most depraved lifestyle in the world ? Europeans.
The Americans are tame by comparison.`

I suspect that you might be familiar with USA and not with the rest of the world becuase what you describe is very common in most parts of the world albeit on a smaller scale. The basic story is identical.

Originally posted by bbarr
Do you actually believe this? I'm not joking, I really want to know. You don't take this as metaphorical, but as a factual prediction?

Look for and beware a world leader who suddenly bursts onto the world stage with a solution for the world's deepening financial crises, as well as solutions to food and water shortages, possible weather control and an incredibly magnetic personality. This will be the guy. He might be preceded by the False Prophet, who will announce his coming, like a twisted version of John the Baptist.

Watch for plans to rebuild the Temple of Solomon on the Temple Mount. This will be preceded by an unprecedented peace treaty between Israel and the Arabs, possibly a solution to the Palestinian question.

Some Christians believe the Rapture will occur before the AntiChrist comes. I'm not fully convinced of this at this time.






tl;dr version: Yes, I do believe this will happen. The only question is when. No one has gotten any predicted timelines for this right yet.

Originally posted by RJHinds
In the thread on the Vatican, I was asked why is the Woman called Babylon.
I gave him a modern interpretation of what Babylon is believed to refer to.
That is, "Babylon in the Book of Revelation refers to the institution of
multinational corporations that are more powerful than any individual
secular government. The whore rides the beast and controls it ...[text shortened]... t will shed more
light on the identity of the woman and the Beast of Revelation 17 and 18.

Comments? You're a nutcase and this loony fringe Protestantism needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history. It has caused enough destruction in the world already.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Look for and beware a world leader who suddenly bursts onto the world stage with a solution for the world's deepening financial crises, as well as solutions to food and water shortages, possible weather control and an incredibly magnetic personality. This will be the guy. He might be preceded by the False Prophet, who will announce his coming, like ...[text shortened]... en. The only question is when. No one has gotten any predicted timelines for this right yet.

I find it hard to believe that is all literal stuff.

Answer this question: Do you think that most of the prophesies in Revelation have already been fulfiled?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I did pay attention to it, but I did my own research and discovered the answer. Babylon at the time Revelations was written was widely known as an ancient, extinct empire that had persecuted Jews. However, even though the Babylonian Empire was gone, the pagan Romans were persecuting Christians. To write this openly was to invite punishment. Babylo ers who worshipped Jupiter and Mars and claimed divinity themselves e.g. Nero, Caligula etc.

*Actually I'm not too familiar with how the Roman Catholic Church became Roman. Constantine didn't officially make the Empire Roman until like 300 AD and he left Rome when he did. But the Bishop of Rome (St Peter himself was one of the first martyrs) wasn't the one throwing Christians to the lions, it was the Emporers who worshipped Jupiter and Mars and claimed divinity themselves e.g. Nero, Caligula etc.

In a sense, the Roman Catholic Church never became Roman. Even nowadays, it is unclear what 'Roman' exactly means. Does it mean Catholics in communion with the see of Rome? Or does it mean Catholics under the canonical jurisdiction of Rome (excluding, say, Ukranian, Maronite and Melkite Catholics)?

While Church documents may use the expression 'Roman Catholic', it is not really an official title. Some Catholics may choose not to use it at all, perhaps because they are Eastern Catholic. When the term was first used, I cannot tell you but I would expect it to be much later in church history.

There is a significant ecclesiological point here. Catholics do not understand their Church to be a 'multinational corporation'. Their Church is a communion. It consists of discrete regions under the authority of a bishop, each constituting a church just as much as the first church of Jerusalem. I live in Melbourne in the archdiocese of Melbourne. This is a church in its own right and Catholics here are under the pastorship of Archbishop Dennis Hart. +Hart is not some papal delegate mediating between Rome and Melbourne; he is the authoritative bishop in his own right, in communion with Rome. Catholics therefore do not see themselves as the Melbourne branch of the Church of Rome but as a Church in their own right in communion with Rome. RJ does respect this point of ecclesiology.

Perhaps we should reflect on the words 'No one knows the hour'.

i agree RJH needs to be chemically castrated , his tongue cut out and thrown in to
the abyss for a thousand squillion years,

anyhow, here is the verse in question,

(Revelation 17:1-2) 17 And one of the seven angels that had the seven bowls came
and spoke with me, saying: “Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great
harlot who sits on many waters,  with whom the kings of the earth committed
fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of
her fornication.”


of worthy of note are various elements,

1. the many waters
2. the kings of the earth
3. the great harlot
4. their drunken state

Originally posted by Suzianne
Look for and beware a world leader who suddenly bursts onto the world stage with a solution for the world's deepening financial crises, as well as solutions to food and water shortages, possible weather control and an incredibly magnetic personality. This will be the guy. He might be preceded by the False Prophet, who will announce his coming, like ...[text shortened]... en. The only question is when. No one has gotten any predicted timelines for this right yet.

What if this person is just a friendly guy with some good new ideas for solving various problems?


What if all this Armageddon talk prevents a perfectly good peace treaty from being signed in the Middle East?
What if all this Armageddon talk leads to a lot of good things not getting done?

Is Christianity about preventing good things from being done? Is that what Jesus wants?

Originally posted by Conrau K
Perhaps we should reflect on the words 'No one knows the hour'.

Reflect on this as well ..

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Reflect on this as well ..

for the time is at hand.

Haha. 2000 years out of date.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Haha. 2000 years out of date.

Wrong. Revelation has all the major world events from the first century up to the second coming of Christ. Obviously most of it is now in recorded history.

The problem with Revelation is that since it is written in metaphorical language mixed in with some literal, unscrupulous prophets/interpreters fool the gullible with hyped up stories of doom and destruction.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Wrong. Revelation has all the major world events from the first century up to the second coming of Christ. Obviously most of it is now in recorded history.

The problem with Revelation is that since it is written in metaphorical language mixed in with some literal, unscrupulous prophets/interpreters fool the gullible with hyped up stories of doom and destruction.

Or, more plausibly, Revelations is open to such broad interpretation that almost any major historical event can be, post hoc, assumed to be a fulfilment of some supposedly prophetic part of it.