Mystery of the Woman and the Beast of Rev. 17

Originally posted by Suzianne
Yes. The passage I quoted in the post you quoted.

The relevant bit is this:
"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." -- Matthew 24:23

"... there should no flesh be saved..." meaning the events are so widespread and massive that it would be capable of ...[text shortened]... will be some humans left alive to witness the very end of days, including Christ's return.

Well in my opinion we have to be careful that we dont over-dramatize the events of the last days. Billions dying appears to be a gross exaggeration.

Originally posted by Suzianne
1. The AntiChrist will indeed present himself as "a friendly guy with some good new ideas for solving various problems". And people will accept him, and choose him to lead them. Even Christians will be fooled.

2. & 3. "This Armageddon talk" will not prevent a single aspect of this scenario from unfolding. It is written in scripture. It is prophesied. ...[text shortened]... h be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." -- Matthew 24:22-23

The scenario wherein untold billions die must take place? So even God is powerless to prevent it? He couldn't, for instance, come on down Himself prior to the billions of people dying and find a way to avoid all that pain and anguish?

And fostering this horror, planning and executing it, is consistent with God's deep and abiding paternal love?

Honestly, this seems like a pretty Baroque plan. Could you take a stab as to what greater good absolutely requires the death of billions? Or do you think that since whatever God does is, by definition, morally perfect, we needn't really bother with such questions?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well in my opinion we have to be careful that we dont over-dramatize the events of the last days. Billions dying appears to be a gross exaggeration.

There's no reason to exaggerate God's Word. It is what it is, a warning. We all should hear the words, and remember them once the events start unfolding. When Christ said to the apostles, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved", I'm sure they were horrified. "There should no flesh be saved" seems plain enough to me, and most likely, to them.

The true danger lies in "pooh-poohing" these events.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Even though she is named in Rev. 17, a much more thorough description is given in Rev. 18. Indeed, the whole chapter is who she is, what she's done, how she will end, and why.

I ask everyone to go find a bible and read through Rev. 18 in its entirety, and then come back here and tell me why she, the whore of Babylon, can be any other except the nation of the United States of America.

Sorry but I'm coming into this post a little late.

Rev 18:4 says to "Get out of her." Are you saying we are all supposed to leave the USA if this is Babylon the Great? No it can't mean a government at all.
The symbolic woman bearing the name Babylon the Great is “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth,” a kingdom that allows her, in effect, to sit on “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.” (Re 17:1, 15, 18)
A kingdom over other kingdoms and nations is what is defined as an “empire.” Babylon the Great places herself above earthly kings, exercising power and influence over them. She rides the symbolic seven-headed beast, beasts being used elsewhere in the Bible as symbols of political world powers.
So Babylon the Great is not a political entity.
It is all false religion......................

Originally posted by Suzianne
There's no reason to exaggerate God's Word. It is what it is, a warning. We all should hear the words, and remember them once the events start unfolding. When Christ said to the apostles, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved", I'm sure they were horrified. "There should no flesh be saved" seems plain enough to me, and most likely, to them.

The true danger lies in "pooh-poohing" these events.

The days were shortened .. that what the Bible says. Correct?
Billions dying ... that is your opinion. Correct ?

Understand the difference, becuase you clearly belong to one of those drama-queen type pentecostal churches.

Originally posted by bbarr
The scenario wherein untold [b]billions die must take place? So even God is powerless to prevent it? He couldn't, for instance, come on down Himself prior to the billions of people dying and find a way to avoid all that pain and anguish?

And fostering this horror, planning and executing it, is consistent with God's deep and abiding pate ...[text shortened]... er God does is, by definition, morally perfect, we needn't really bother with such questions?[/b]

Let's remember that God once scourged the entire earth with water, killing everyone except his chosen few. He did this because iniquity was rife in the earth in those days. Sin was out of control. And Luke 17:26-30 says this:

"And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed."

God abhors sin. When man is sinful, the price must be paid. In the days of Noah, sin was widespread in the earth. In the days of Lot, Sodom was rife with sin. And in the last days before the coming of Christ, sin will be manifest over nearly all the earth.

It's the endgame. You had to expect a big finish.

Everyone will be resurrected to be sorted out by God in the end. Those who chose God will go on to live in the New Jerusalem. Those who chose Satan will go to the Lake of Fire, or the second death. Satan will be bound for a millenium.

Sin must be abolished. This is God's deep and abiding paternal love, yes. The righteous will go on to be with God and Christ in His Kingdom. The rest will reap their own reward in death.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The days were shortened .. that what the Bible says. Correct?
Billions dying ... that is your opinion. Correct ?

Understand the difference, becuase you clearly belong to one of those drama-queen type pentecostal churches.

You left out the tiny detail:

"there should no flesh be saved"

All the drama you need is in those few words. "No flesh", not "some flesh", or "all flesh"... NO flesh be saved.

Lest the days were shortened, and therefore the days shall be shortened.

You know, you can "drama-queen" me all you like. God's word is what it is. You don't like it? Take it up with Him.

Originally posted by Suzianne
You left out the tiny detail:

"there should no flesh be saved"

All the drama you need is in those few words. "No flesh", not "some flesh", or "all flesh"... NO flesh be saved.

Lest the days were shortened, and therefore the days shall be shortened.

You know, you can "drama-queen" me all you like. God's word is what it is. You don't like it? Take it up with Him.

The problem is that you see fit to put a figure on it when the Bible did no such thing. If you are true to the Bible you just repeat what it says without adding and embelishing and exaggerating.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Ok Ms Drama-Queen 😀

Originally posted by galveston75
Sorry but I'm coming into this post a little late.

Rev 18:4 says to "Get out of her." Are you saying we are all supposed to leave the USA if this is Babylon the Great? No it can't mean a government at all.
The symbolic woman bearing the name Babylon the Great is “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth,” a kingdom that allows ...[text shortened]... abylon the Great is not a political entity.
It is all false religion......................

Yes. Yes. You had it all right there in the palm of your hand, ready for your understanding, and then you blew it with the last line. Probably because this was already your decision of what it meant, probably told to you by someone else. Look upon it with your own eyes and see and understand. The USA has always held itself up as a leader of nations. Having "a kingdom over the kings of the earth", a kingdom that allows her to sit on "peoples and crowds and nations and tongues."

Yes. The USA "places herself above earthly kings, exercising power and influence over them. She rides the symbolic seven-headed beast, beasts being used elsewhere in the Bible as symbols of political world powers." The economic might of the USA has caused her to to be all this to all nations on earth. The whole world uses HER dollar. She has caused merchants worldwide to be drunk with the wine of her fornication with them, her machinations behind the scenes, financial treaties we know little about. The IMF is in her pocket. She sits on the throne of "permanent security council member" in the UN. The only reason countries like China do not invade us is because they can still make money off of her.

"For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies." -- Rev. 18:3

I don't mean just the government. I mean the nation. It fits all your quotations.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The problem is that you see fit to put a figure on it when the Bible did no such thing. If you are true to the Bible you just repeat what it says [b]without adding and embelishing and exaggerating.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Ok Ms Drama-Queen 😀[/b]

The only figure I put on it is the entire population of the earth. Last I heard, that was billions.

"No flesh left alive" *does* put a number on it. ZERO. Or, the number of people killed = the entire population of the earth.

It's plain to anyone with an ear to listen. If it scares you, well, don't listen. Don't just claim it's not true. That's what children do. Adults heed warnings and prepare.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The only figure I put on it is the entire population of the earth. Last I heard, that was billions.

"No flesh left alive" *does* put a number on it. ZERO. Or, the number of people killed = the entire population of the earth.

It's plain to anyone with an ear to listen. If it scares you, well, don't listen. Don't just claim it's not true. That's what children do. Adults heed warnings and prepare.

The Bible never said that the entire population will be killed.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Yes. Yes. You had it all right there in the palm of your hand, ready for your understanding, and then you blew it with the last line. Probably because this was already your decision of what it meant, probably told to you by someone else. Look upon it with your own eyes and see and understand. The USA has always held itself up as a leader of nations. H ...[text shortened]...
I don't mean just the government. I mean the nation. It fits all your quotations.

Well no the USA is not ruling over all the other governments and in fact there are a very good handful that have nothing to do with the USA and in fact hate it.
There is nothing that all governments have more in common then religion as that is in 99% of all countries worldwide.
So again I ask are all Christians supposed to get out of the United States? That makes no sense if it were a literal place on the earth. If it were that simple then these scriptures would read a lot differently.
A simple command to leave this part of the world is all that would be needed.

But if you want to get specific about the USA try applying it to this wild beast with lambs horns and see what you think. It's at Rev 13:11-17:

11 "And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth ( or man made by many nations ), and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. ( It portrays peace but has the destruction power of a dragon.)
12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast ( The League of Nations ) in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed ( and later became the United Nations ).
13 And it performs great signs, so that it should even make fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind. ( No other country has the destructive power of the USA. "Awe and Shock is one very small example? )
14 And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. 15 And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast.
16 And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead,
17 and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. ( The number 666 sound familier?)

This no doubt is the United States but this is not Babylon the Great as Babylon the Great commits fornication with the worlds governments. The USA is a world government.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The only figure I put on it is the entire population of the earth. Last I heard, that was billions.

"No flesh left alive" *does* put a number on it. ZERO. Or, the number of people killed = the entire population of the earth.

It's plain to anyone with an ear to listen. If it scares you, well, don't listen. Don't just claim it's not true. That's what children do. Adults heed warnings and prepare.

What qualifies you as an adult? Or any other posters here for that matter?

Remember if you dont learn to swim , then you wont magically be able to do it just because you get older.
Just because people turn 18 or 21 , they may be eligible to vote,etc. but does that really make them an adult?

I think you have to become a responsible citizen of the cosmos before you become an adult. You should be able to understand universal principles. You should be able to "fend " for yourself, and some other things before I would consider you an adult.

It is a shame that we have such low or even non-existent standards on what it means to be an adult. I would hope that in the future the term "adult" brings with it a new meaning.

Interesting debate; nothing divides Christians like the Great Whore herself.

My view is that the Whore and the 7 headed beast refer to Rome as the then literal and now metaphorical centre of capitalism and trade; and the whore herself is the denominational church system - then it was in it's origins, i.e. The Roman Catholic Church which fornicated with Rome (Constantine) has since spawned all the denominations of the Christian world which we see today. They are her daughters, all of whom fornicate with the state and with capitalism.

Corporate organised religion is the Whore of Babylon. The false bride - a whore.

Originally posted by divegeester
Interesting debate; nothing divides Christians like the Great Whore herself.

My view is that the Whore and the 7 headed beast refer to Rome as the then literal and now metaphorical centre of capitalism and trade; and the whore herself is the denominational church system - then it was in it's origins, i.e. The Roman Catholic Church which fornicated wit ...[text shortened]... apitalism.

Corporate organised religion is the Whore of Babylon. The false bride - a whore.

The Roman Catholic Church which fornicated with Rome (Constantine) has since spawned all the denominations of the Christian world which we see today. They are her daughters, all of whom fornicate with the state and with capitalism.

Interesting but not true. The Orthodox and Oriental churches are equally old as the Roman Catholic Church. They are not spawn of the Roman Catholic Church. Their liturgy and dogma point to great antiquity. Some of the Oriental churches also espouse Monophysism and Nestorianism, indicating a very early split from mainstream Christianity.