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    05 Nov '18 00:40
    The Bible says that narrow in the road to salvation.

    Does that require a narrow mind as well?
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    The Axe man
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    05 Nov '18 00:55
    @whodey said
    The Bible says that narrow in the road to salvation.

    Does that require a narrow mind as well?
    prolly not..

    All I know is that the goals are easy to pin when you are close to them
  3. Standard membersonship
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    05 Nov '18 01:242 edits
    @whodey
    The Bible says that narrow in the road to salvation.

    It says that way is narrow to the salvation of the soul which is sanctification.

    I don't think it says the way to salvation of the spirit or to forgiveness is narrow. Rather it is whosoever believes.

    But to be born again is not an end in itself.
    And to be forgiven is not an end in itself.

    To go on to sanctification and transformation of the soul is narrow, restricted. And the way to neglecting that and suffering the loss of the soul is broad. Many will only receive initial salvation of the spirit in the church age.

    Fewer will overcome to the transformation of the soul - the salvation of the soul.

    Does that require a narrow mind as well?


    It requires the renewing of the mind.
    It requires the mind to become the mind of Christ through renewing and transformation.
  4. Joined
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    05 Nov '18 03:37
    @sonship said
    @whodey
    The Bible says that narrow in the road to salvation.

    It says that way is narrow to the salvation of the soul which is sanctification.

    I don't think it says the way to salvation of the spirit or to forgiveness is narrow. Rather it is whosoever believes.

    But to be born again is not an end in itself.
    And to be forgiven is not an end in itself ...[text shortened]... of the mind.
    It requires the mind to become the mind of Christ through renewing and transformation.
    So a narrow focus then?
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    05 Nov '18 03:52
    @whodey said
    So a narrow focus then?
    It requires Jesus Christ, no other.
  6. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    05 Nov '18 04:24
    The narrow path requires the broadest mind.

    Everything I have read from the Saints has indicated that you have to not just forgive people entirely, but to always give them the benefit of the doubt and to bear no ill will for them. The narrow road isn't about abstaining from directly sinful actions like drunkenness, adultery, thievery, lying, etc., but even to abstain from malice, hatred, jealousy, ill will of all varieties, and to be joyful.

    The narrow path is intelligent and wrapped up in divine eros for all other people.

    I think this actually requires the broadest of all minds, but a narrow focus on the pure, and one that allows for the kindest and best treatment of others.
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    05 Nov '18 04:362 edits
    @philokalia said
    The narrow path is intelligent and wrapped up in divine eros for all other people.
    No "salvation", then, for ignorant, parochial, misanthropic, judgemental people who believe in Jesus?
  8. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    05 Nov '18 06:25
    Judge not lest ye be judged.

    So I do not know.

    There is the story about the alcoholic monk on Mt. Athos who was still getting drunk every single day since he arrived. It was because of the fact that, as a child, his parents had forced him to drink Raki to stop his crying and put him asleep, hiding from the Turkish soldiers. He eventually reduced his alcoholism, which was ignired in his youth, but never fully conquered it, yet the angels came to bring him to heaven.

    There is also the story of the monk who was lazy and slacked off in all of his tasks, and that he was otherwise also morally questionable, yet the angels also came for him. When they asked the elder about why this was, they say it was because he never judged anybody.

    People have different capacities, so even a sinner who did many bad things bu thas sincere contrition and grace will enter the same Heaven as distinguished Saints.

    We are asked only to do what we can, and we all have different capacities, stations, and stories.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    05 Nov '18 06:53
    @philokalia said
    There is the story about the alcoholic monk on Mt. Athos who was still getting drunk every single day since he arrived. It was because of the fact that, as a child, his parents had forced him to drink Raki to stop his crying and put him asleep, hiding from the Turkish soldiers. He eventually reduced his alcoholism, which was ignired in his youth, but never fully conquered it, yet the angels came to bring him to heaven.
    "The angels came to bring him to heaven"?
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    05 Nov '18 06:56
    @philokalia said
    There is also the story of the monk who was lazy and slacked off in all of his tasks, and that he was otherwise also morally questionable, yet the angels also came for him.
    "The angels also came for him"? How do you know this? How was the storyteller able to make this judgement?
  11. Devonshire
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    05 Nov '18 07:09
    @philokalia said
    We are asked only to do what we can, and we all have different capacities, stations, and stories.
    Asked by who?
  12. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    05 Nov '18 08:18
    @fmf said
    "The angels also came for him"? How do you know this? How was the storyteller able to make this judgement?
    It is sometimes accepted that particularly holy people, or the people who are dying themselves, can see angels present in certain circumstances.

    It would not be something that I would ever imagine I would see.

    Yet, the Saints can see them, and these miraculous events do occur.

    However, no one should not be distressed for not partaking in such a miracle or sign. I have heard it said that seeing such a miraculous thing and having God so vividly justified to you is utterly life-changing. Many times the only people who have seen these things are monks & nuns because, hey, even if they were not a monk or a nun when they saw it, they become one afterwards.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    05 Nov '18 11:43
    @philokalia said
    It is sometimes accepted that particularly holy people, or the people who are dying themselves, can see angels present in certain circumstances.

    It would not be something that I would ever imagine I would see.

    Yet, the Saints can see them, and these miraculous events do occur.

    However, no one should not be distressed for not partaking in such a miracle or sign. ...[text shortened]... ns because, hey, even if they were not a monk or a nun when they saw it, they become one afterwards.
    So the writer of the folk tale "knows" and can "judge" but you cannot?
  14. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    05 Nov '18 23:37
    Even if you believe that it is a folk tale, it is a part of the vast body of referenced material in Orthodoxy concerning the merits of mystery of salvation and the potential relativity within it, and the merits of forgiveness, all of which correlates well with the message of Christ.

    So, you can see how it is relevant.

    ^^
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    05 Nov '18 23:39
    @philokalia said
    Even if you believe that it is a folk tale, it is a part of the vast body of referenced material in Orthodoxy concerning the merits of mystery of salvation and the potential relativity within it, and the merits of forgiveness, all of which correlates well with the message of Christ.

    So, you can see how it is relevant.

    ^^
    A direct answer to my question would be more interesting.
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