Go back
Natural causes instead of unnatural

Natural causes instead of unnatural

Spirituality


@kellyjay said
the whole point was can you tell if
something done required a mind behind it or not, you obviously cannot even see
the question because you are fixated on a creator.
if something done required a mind behind it ... you are fixated on a creator

So, in your approach to this topic, when you are talking about "a mind behind it" ~ where "it" is the universe ~ you are explicitly NOT talking about "a creator"? That seems very odd.

Vote Up
Vote Down

@fmf said
if something done required a mind behind it ... you are fixated on a creator

So, in your approach to this topic, when you are talking about "a mind behind it" ~ where "it" is the universe ~ you are explicitly NOT talking about "a creator"? That seems very odd.
I limited the question to only two things, you are the one changing the subject with
every post. Mind, and mindlessness, how many times did I say that to you?

1 edit

@kellyjay said
I limited the question to only two things, you are the one changing the subject with
every post. Mind, and mindlessness, how many times did I say that to you?
I have addressed your "mind" versus "mindlessness" dichotomy countless times.

You are pretending I haven't.

If your interest in this conversation is genuine, then just address what I am saying.

If you think my questioning of your premise is "changing the subject" then you are either being dishonest or you are being a buffoon.

Vote Up
Vote Down

@KellyJay
There's still no evidence that you are reading the content of any of my posts.

Vote Up
Vote Down

@fmf said
@KellyJay
There's still no evidence that you are reading the content of any of my posts.
You are locked into avoiding the topic and just trying to find a way to make this
about me, or anything else, 'evidence' not about mindlessness, but about my
reading your posts. For crying out loud how stuck on you are you?

Mindlessness or mind, what we see in life does one have more evidence for it
than the other, as you see it? NOT does KellyJay read your posts, is KellyJay
trying to do this or that, does KellyJay understand the universe as well as you
do, get into the topic or go away, you are adding nothing to the discussion.

Vote Up
Vote Down

@fmf said
I have addressed your "mind" versus "mindlessness" dichotomy countless times.

You are pretending I haven't.

If your interest in this conversation is genuine, then just address what I am saying.

If you think my questioning of your premise is "changing the subject" then you are either being dishonest or you are being a buffoon.
Okay, I'm done with you, from here on out the old rules, say what you will, and
you will not get a response from me, I am simply wiping the dust off my feet as
far as you are concerned.


@kellyjay said
You are locked into avoiding the topic and just trying to find a way to make this
about me, or anything else, 'evidence' not about mindlessness, but about my
reading your posts.
I am locked into the very core of your premise and your disingenuous framing of the question. I am not "talking about something else". You are ignoring the content of my posts. It is you who is running away from the conversation.

Vote Up
Vote Down

@kellyjay said
Okay, I'm done with you, from here on out the old rules, say what you will, and
you will not get a response from me, I am simply wiping the dust off my feet as
far as you are concerned.
When you say "mind", do you mean like a human mind? And when you ask if an entity is "mindless", are you asking if it is non-human? And whether it has a human mind? Did you get your idea that the entity that might have caused the universe is a kind of humanoid from the ancient Hebrews?

2 edits

BUMP for KellyJay.

The concept of anthropomorphization lies at the very heart of your disingenuous/false-dilemma framing of this mystery. I have no reason to believe that a creator entity, if there is one, is some kind of humanoid life that has human attributes such as intentions, needs, aspirations and emotions.

So, with your parochial riffing on "mindlessness" you are engaging in a kind of absurd reductionism. I deduce that this is in the service of your Abrahamic "Man was made in God's image" dogma, blatantly so. You try to NOT mention it ~ the way the "Creator" is framed in the Book of Genesis ~ but every now and then you do. You can't help yourself. And then you scuttle away pretending it has nothing to do with it [for you].

I have no reason whatsoever to assume that the entity that is the cause of the universe, is anything other than non-human. So your "mind" versus "mindlessness" dichotomy doesn't work. You are juggling just one idea and it's an idea driven by your religionism.

In the context of the staggeringly profound nature of this mystery, you coughing up your "mind" versus "mindlessness" dichotomy/rhetorical device over and over and over and over again eventually comes across as nothing more or less than dogmatic prattle.

If you insist that YOUR anthropomorphization is off-topic, then you are simply demonstrating that you are getting intellectually incapacitated by the disagreement of someone who does not share your beliefs.


@kellyjay said
Okay, I'm done with you.
Well, if you should ever pluck up the discursive courage to engage the perspectives that you find inconvenient, they are all still here, hanging in the air, unaddressed and ignored. Come back to it when you are ready.


@kellyjay said
Mindlessness or mind, what we see in life does one have more evidence for it
than the other, as you see it?
I refer you to 12 pages of me tackling this question head-on - to no avail.

Vote Up
Vote Down

@kellyjay said
Well, life takes energy from different sources and converts them so they are useful,
that is done with biological machines in life, along with information that drives life
so that in complex life liver cells are made there they are needed, skin cells, and so
on all of this due to the instructions in life's code. Do you think seeing this popup
without a guide, and intervention just a natural outtake of mindless processes?
Yes.

Vote Up
Vote Down

@indonesia-phil said
Yes.
How does that happen naturally, nature has everything moving toward equilibrium
things wind down. If you think it is a natural thing that information arises so that it
can direct processes without a mind directing them, where did the instructions in life
come from, how were they inserted into life without intervention?

Vote Up
Vote Down

@kellyjay said
How does that happen naturally, nature has everything moving toward equilibrium
things wind down. If you think it is a natural thing that information arises so that it
can direct processes without a mind directing them, where did the instructions in life
come from, how were they inserted into life without intervention?
By natural process.

Vote Up
Vote Down

@kellyjay said
How does that happen naturally, nature has everything moving toward equilibrium
things wind down. If you think it is a natural thing that information arises so that it
can direct processes without a mind directing them, where did the instructions in life
come from, how were they inserted into life without intervention?
Yes, naturalists must explain every detail of how it happened!

But not the Christians. They have the Black Box Almighty. They don't have to explain jack.

That's not a double standard at all!