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Originally posted by FMFChrist was rejected as a fraud, liar and imposter by His own people and crucified at an age approximating divegeester's. No validation from subsequent centuries was required. Any conversational value here is trumped by my concern for your immortal soul.
You are missing the point. Divegeester is in fact who and what he claims to be on these Red Hot Pawn Public Forums because he posts for himself and engages us without interpreters and intermediaries. So there is, as you say, no debate. However, if others were posting on his behalf, writing things about him, purportedly on his behalf, and still developing the me dilemma. And that was, presumably, the entertainment that you were seeking to squeeze from it.
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYep, as I thought. You are missing the point. I hoped your OP was tongue in cheek, but apparently it's not. "No Middle Ground" in terms of, say, paedophilia is OK. "No Middle Ground" in terms of embezzlement and fraud and theft is OK. "No Middle Ground" in terms of murder etc. etc. is OK. But your kind of philosophically 'autistic' "There Is No Middle Ground" in terms of things like politics and religion - your own personal naivety, credulousness or sincerity notwithstanding - is what gets people killed; in their thousands; in their millions; century after century. It is "There Is No Middle Ground" that "drives the persecution engine around the globe in our own life and times". It may puff you up and help you to make sense of whatever your life is, but as a mantra, as a prism, as a bland soundbite to open a thread in a public forum, it is ugly, shallow and boring.
Christ was rejected as a fraud, liar and imposter by His own people and crucified at an age approximating divegeester's. No validation from subsequent centuries was required. Any conversational value is trumped by my concern for your immortal soul.
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyHmmm, I was thinking of some others from different religious persuasions, but your point is not lost on me. Thanks.
True, karoly. Some of his followers as well. The selfsame hatred still flourishes
and drives the persecution engine around the globe in our own life and times.
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Originally posted by FMFIndeed.
Yep, as I thought. You are missing the point. I hoped your OP was tongue in cheek, but apparently it's not. "No Middle Ground" in terms of, say, paedophilia is OK. "No Middle Ground" in terms of embezzlement and fraud and theft is OK. "No Middle Ground" in terms of murder etc. etc. is OK. But your kind of philosophically 'autistic' "There Is No Middle Ground" in ...[text shortened]... and soundbite to open a thread in a public forum, it is ugly, shallow and boring.
I have to agree with all the statements there.. Gramps ?
No Middle Ground
"Christ was either who and what He claimed to be or he was the worst fraud and imposter
the world has ever known. No ordinary 'good man' would make such outrageous claims."
......................................................
Please read the the initial post slowly and thoughtfully again for the first time. Somewhat surprised that someone hasn't
disputed the premise by stating that Christ or divegeester or anyone could be both an imitation and the genuine article.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyFirstly, you don't know what claims this Jesus character actually made. Secondly, can you really not imagine a scenario in which a good and earnest man might make claims as fantastic as those ascribed to him (or 'Him' if you prefer)? I certainly can.
[b]No Middle Ground
"Christ was either who and what He claimed to be or he was the worst fraud and imposter
the world has ever known. No ordinary 'good man' would make such outrageous claims."
......................................................
Please read the the initial post slowly and thoughtfully again for the first time. Somew ...[text shortened]... ng that Christ or divegeester or anyone could be both an imitation and the genuine article.[/b]
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIf you count the Sanhedrin as "his own people" this would be roughly accurate as to who rejected him, but they would not have counted themselves as his own people. Nor could one say he was rejected by those who shouted "Hosanna" as he entered Jerusalem. This was the Sanhedrin's problem, as they sought to maintain their influence under the Roman occupiers. They had to manage this rebel.
Christ was rejected as a fraud, liar and imposter by His own people and crucified at an age approximating divegeester's. No validation from subsequent centuries was required. Any conversational value here is trumped by my concern for your immortal soul.
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There is an interesting view at
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/james_still/jesus_trial.html
It ends with, "But we can surmise a few things: Jesus was a political figure and a claimant to the throne of Israel. His Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem as that of a long-awaited Messiah who would destroy the Romans and seize his rightful kingship ended in failure and crucifixion as a rebel."
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Originally posted by buckky
I agree with you totally . It would take a miracle for me to believe what you believe .
I agree with you totally . It would take a miracle for me to believe what you believe .
Regeneration, being born again is the real miracle.
Jesus Christ is believable. He is the most believable Person I have ever heard about. He is more believable than you or I.
But to be born again, that is what the Apostle John says is not of man but of God.
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name,
Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12,13)
Just like none of us WILLED ourselves to be BORN naturally, so we need Another, God, to cause us to be born again in regeneration -
www.regenerated.net
But Christ Himself, the Man, if one reads aloud about His life and His words in the New Testament, I think there is an approvedness, a genuiness, an honesty about Him that makes Jesus a believable Person.
His resurrection from the dead on the third day, is consistant totally with the power of His personality, more so than any other man who has lived.
But His availability today, and the fact that He is so faithful to enter into the innermost being of the one who recieves, Him --- without the power of God's operation, it couldn't happen.
"It is the greatest wonder in the entire universe that human beings could be begotten of God” (Lee, Footnotes 1189)—that is, regenerated* with the divine life of God. Yet over the centuries of Christian history the precious, vital significance of regeneration has been neglected and gradually lost. Instead, some have come to view regeneration as simply a “new beginning,” a fresh start in one’s Christian life. Others regard regeneration as the point in time when a decision is made to leave one’s old manner of living, turn over a new leaf, and begin to follow the moral, Christian path. Even The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language—Third Edition defines regenerate as follows: “To reform spiritually or morally; to undergo spiritual conversion or rebirth; reform.” It defines regeneration as “spiritual or moral revival or rebirth.” Sadly, these definitions are shallow at best, not only failing to convey this precious truth, but also helping to obscure it. This site, drawing upon the writings of a number of respected Christian authors, is an attempt to clarify the significance and proper experience of regeneration as presented in the Bible. The following links will help you navigate through the main contents:
Copied from from www.regenerated.net
Originally posted by JS357Mr. Still your pastor-teacher?
If you count the Sanhedrin as "his own people" this would be roughly accurate as to who rejected him, but they would not have counted themselves as his own people. Nor could one say he was rejected by those who shouted "Hosanna" as he entered Jerusalem. This was the Sanhedrin's problem, as they sought to maintain their influence under the Roman occupiers. They ...[text shortened]... the Romans and seize his rightful kingship ended in failure and crucifixion as a rebel."
Originally posted by FMFYou got it now. You are either for Christ or against him.
Yep, as I thought. You are missing the point. I hoped your OP was tongue in cheek, but apparently it's not. "No Middle Ground" in terms of, say, paedophilia is OK. "No Middle Ground" in terms of embezzlement and fraud and theft is OK. "No Middle Ground" in terms of murder etc. etc. is OK. But your kind of philosophically 'autistic' "There Is No Middle Ground" in ...[text shortened]... and soundbite to open a thread in a public forum, it is ugly, shallow and boring.
No middle ground will be allowed. 😏