No need to be like Christ ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
The topic is a general one and not designed to ask individuals about whether or not they actually follow Christ. I have no interest in that aspect of the topic. I have never said or implied that sonship does or does not follow Christ. I dont know anything about the man's personal life.

The topic is about whether the Bible preaches that one should follow ...[text shortened]... ke every discussion a personal one about individuals and what they do shows how shallow you are.

If that is the only way you can follow Christ I'd assume it would reach some level of
importance even with you, but alas you are about works and establishing your own
righteousness and ignoring what God has offered.

Originally posted by Rajk999

If your interpretation was correct and slam-dunk as you make it out to be, then the Apostles would have no need to warn and admonish Christian saints, who have been baptised into Christ and have put on Christ and who have the Spirit of God and Holy Spirit and every imaginable thing that can help them to live rightesouly, to avoid sin, to live righteously otherwise the consequences is eternal death.

WHY you would assume that is beyond me.

Why you would think that abiding in Christ as the New Testament abundantly teaches would not include warnings, incentives, admonitions to do so.

The reason that the New Testament, a book on the empowering grace of Christ, has many admonitions, warning, and even passages concerning consequences either negative discipline or positive reward is because it is not a matter of total PASSIVITY

The Apostle Paul pioneered into this life of abiding in Christ. But he was not altogether a passive person just waiting to cooperate with grace. He said the grace of God was not in vain to him.

" But by the grace of God I am what I am; and His grace unto me did not turn out to be in vain. (1 Cor. 15:10a)

Like every other Christian he received the divine seed of life.
Like every other Christian he received "the gift of righteousness" .
He received the Spirit indwelling his spirit, like all the believers.

He grasped the utter preciousness of what was going on in his being and he took advantage of that indwelling One to the maximum. Now let's consider the rest of the passage.

"But by the grace of God I am what I am; and His grace unto me did not turn out to be in vain, but on the contrary, I labored more abundantly than all of them,

Yet not I but the grace of God which is with me." (1 Cor. 15:10)

You may mistake my emphasis on trust in Christ, abiding in Christ, union with Christ, living out Christ as passivity. No I am not teaching passivity.

Paul learned, and if we take him at his word, he learned "more abundantly than all of them" how to labor in his life and ministry. Yet he tells us it was the grace of God that was with him.

I have written this before. That is to compare 1 Cor. 15:10 to Galatians 2:20.
One passage says in essence NOT I BUT THE GRACE OF GOD.
And the other corresponding passage says NOT I BUT CHRIST.

The grace of God which energized Paul was Jesus Christ living in Paul.

" I am crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh Iive in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

I do not nullify the grace of God; ...

Did you get that ??

" I do not nullify THE GRACE OF GOD ..."

That is the empowering and enabling GRACE which operated in him causing him to even surpass the labor and dedication of the twelve original apostles. What a model this brother was.

Again, he utilized to the maximum the indwelling grace of God which was Christ living in him.

"I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness is through law, then Christ has died for nothing." (v.21)

Exploring and utilizing to the MAXIMUM possible the indwelling grace of God is not passivity. And if it were automatic without man's cooperation, there would be no adminitions.

But what kind of admonitions are there? For one, Paul says that he and his co-workers labored to present every man FULL GROWN IN CHRIST. That is a matter of grace growing.

" [Christ] Whom we announce, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom that we may present every man full-grown in Christ;

For which also I labor, struggling according to His operation which operates in me in power." (Col. 1:28,29)

Originally posted by Rajk999
In another thread, I said : :"Jesus is the model of righteousness and His teachings leads one to living righteously. But he now goes back to God. The Holy Spirit will now serve as the model that Christians can emulate "

Sonship says : "Where are we told to "emulate" Jesus ?"

Do Christians share this view of sonship, that we are not required to emulate [meaning to imitate or try to be like] Jesus.Christ.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly.

Emulate? ..as in do what he does, in effect being robot-like. Or understand his essence and try to live according to this understanding?

I think it's dangerous to become (or remain) robotic when it comes to spirituality.

edit: I see other posters have raised this, however I'm still interested in your response to me, if there is something suitable (you have already posted in this thread) . kindly point me to it

Someone called me a Calvinist here, Robbie.

How often do I mention John Calvin ?

Anyway, the first serious book on the Christian life I read was way over my head. In hindsight it was not only over my head, it also was not that practical.

But this book had two headings in a certain chapter. They were something like this:

Grace - God's power over man

Grace- God's power in man

At the time I had very little idea of what the theologian, the author of this book was talking about. I didn't know too much about Grace - God's power over man. And I knew nothing about Grace - God's power in man.

Today the story with me is much different. I understand both of these title headings. Especially I understand what is meant by grace is God's power working in man. It is like the power steering of an automobile. With our cooperation God is working in us both the willing and the working for His good pleasure.

The VERY LAST WORD of the entire divine revelation is a word about, you guesed it, Grace which is also God's power of divine life IN the believers.

The last word of the whole 66 books of the Bible is ---

" The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints. Amen" (Rev. 22:21)

Originally posted by josephw
Well, all I can say is is if you can say that you don't sin, then I'll believe what you say. Otherwise your assertion that only those that no longer commit sin are saved is without merit.

In other words, if you can make the assertion that only the saved no longer commit sin, and cannot declare that you never sin, then your interpretation of the passages you quote is void and nothing less than an outright lie.

If I, or anyone else for that matter told you that I/we are without sin would you believe us?

Originally posted by josephw
Liar.

?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Jaywills Calvinism can be traced back to Plato where he describes matter as being evil and
that is why the focus is on non matter or spirit to the detriment of all else. It has in my
opinion produced a very ethereal type of faith that is of little practical value.

IMO it's a testament to the fact that one size does not fit all... never has , never will

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I'm not sure what you mean exactly.

Emulate? ..as in do what he does, in effect being robot-like. Or understand his essence and try to live according to this understanding?

I think it's dangerous to become (or remain) robotic when it comes to spirituality.

edit: I see other posters have raised this, however I'm still interested in your respons ...[text shortened]... if there is something suitable (you have already posted in this thread) . kindly point me to it

" understand his essence and try to live according to this understanding " Yes.

Not like a robot. Why would you think I mean that ?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
?

The guy probably has a lot of personal problems .. we have to be tolerant and forgiving 🙂

I sat down at the library one day to read a thick book on John Calvin. I by no means made much of a dint in the large volume. But I remember the first chapter.

Rather humorously the author stated that Calvinism has been blamed for just about everything wrong with the Western world. Many maladies including rampant capitalism,"manifest destiny," and other major philosophies and economic problems, the author said, have Calvinism as the whipping boy.

At one time or another it has been charge that Calvinism is to blame, whatever it is.

Originally posted by Rajk999
" understand his essence and try to live according to this understanding " Yes.

Not like a robot. Why would you think I mean that ?

Sometimes Christians think that spirituality consists in following instructions to the letter and you will get to heaven.
This can be a dangerous mindset as history has shown.

But I digress, I was just making sure, and also giving you a simple question so you can give a simple answer. Thnx

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Sometimes Christians think that spirituality consists in following instructions to the letter and you will get to heaven.
This can be a dangerous mindset as history has shown.

But I digress, I was just making sure, and also giving you a simple question so you can give a simple answer. Thnx

I would have thought that you know me better 🙂.

The essence of the teachings of Christ is what is essential for all people to follow. How people do it, why they do it, whether they succeed or otherwise, Jesus will judge and reward accordingly.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I would have thought that you know me better 🙂.

The essence of the teachings of Christ is what is essential for all people to follow. How people do it, why they do it, whether they succeed or otherwise, Jesus will judge and reward accordingly.

The reason for my query is due to comments like the last sentence of your last post

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The reason for my query is due to comments like the last sentence of your last post

Many of the Christians here propagate an ideology that comprises nothing much more than thinking about stuff - what they think about themselves, what they think about Jesus, what they think about God, what they think Jesus and God think about them, what they think about "salvation" and how they think that "salvation" is guaranteed as long as they think certain stuff - for all intents and purposes - they think they can think their own immortality into existence.

In all my years here, I can scarcely remember posters like sonship or KellyJay ever saying anything about the practical application of their 'think this think that' religion on real life, on their behaviour, on their interactions with others, on their deeds and "works".

To me, talking about beliefs that have no impact on real life, on real morality (which governs how we behave and interact), and on the real world in which live, then it's just chewing the cud, posturing, and vanity.

If someone comes along and talks about behaviour, deeds, actions, and works, and how spirituality is nothing if it isn't reflected in these things, I think characterizing this as "robotic' is to take aim at the wrong thing, because meanwhile there are others oozing neo-Orwellian ideology about goodthink and thoughtcrimes ~ often 'backed up' with dark and depraved medieval mutterings about revenge and torture for thinking the wrong things.

Originally posted by FMF
Many of the Christians here propagate an ideology that comprises nothing much more than[b] thinking about stuff - what they think about themselves, what they think about Jesus, what they think about God, what they think Jesus and God think about them, what they think about "salvation" and how they think that "salvation" is guaranteed as long as they think ce ...[text shortened]... h dark and depraved medieval mutterings about revenge and torture for thinking the wrong things.[/b]

I may be taking aim at the wrong thing, your post is a bit complex.
However, I do want to re-emphasize the danger of robotically following other people's limited interpretations of religious beliefs.

It is is not in the spirit of "true" spirituality, which, imo, MUST include an individual , independent component

edit: after a re-read of your post I still don't know if you are countering my post, or just adding to it. Sorry for any confusion/misderstanding in advance