Originally posted by HandyAndy

Richard Dawkins? Stephen Hawking? Why are you getting so defensive? The man was Moses,
not some arbitrary charlatan who tried to dupe the world.

Do you deny that Moses and his learned team of advisers wrote the Book of Genesis?

Originally posted by RJHinds
That does not work because man could not have created himself.

Originally posted by sonship
I think I did not make myself clear to you.

When I first turned to Jesus I had a huge intellectual filter on my mind First with the Bible as a whole, but particularly with the book of Genesis.

It was through the reading about Jesus that I learned:

1.) His integrity was impeccable.

2.) He took the Old Testament seriously, including the fiv ...[text shortened]... It my personal experience, that is how I learned to respect the Old Testament, including Moses.

Originally posted by HandyAndy
Moses deserves your respect. You should think more carefully before you blurt things out.

The majority of Christians will most certainly miss the first rapture which is secret, sudden, unexpected, and pre-tribulation. They will be taken from the living Christians as in Firstfruits (and other examples in Matthew 24 after verse 31) and they will be taken from saints who died in bygone years, as in the Manchild.

With either the living saints or the "sleeping" saints, the principle of early rapture is the same - they are being rewarded for their overcoming.

I do understand that some Bible believers will be made to feel uncomfortable about Rapture as a reward. That is because ever since the Reformation we Christians have place so much emphasis on the free gift of grace that we became dull about matters related to the kingdom.

Now notice that when the rapture of the Manchild takes place, the voice proclaims this a victory, not for the church per se, but for the kingdom.

"And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying. Now has come the salvation and the power and the KINGDOM of our God and the authority of His Christ, ..." (Rev. 12:10a)

The church people were taught to pray "Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth even as it is in heaven." When the early rapture comes before the thousand two hundred and sixty days of the great tribulation (Rev. 12:6), the heavenly voice says "Now has come the salvation and the POWER and the KINGDOM of our God and the AUTHORITY of His Christ."

Rapture here is a matter of strategic advantage in spiritual warfare over the planet. For God's kingdom to come, the need for some overcomers to be raptured up temporarily is critical.

When some overcoming and victorious believers are early raptured, along with their salvation God's need to establish His kingdom on earth is also secured. Our overcoming is assisting God in bringing in the kingdom and the authority of Christ to the earth.

Look again - "Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ ..." now that a remnant of overcomers have been raptured " ..., for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down, who accuses them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony and they loved not their soul-life even unto death."

Redemption is here - "the blood of the Lamb".
The truth of the word of God is here - "the word of their testimony".
And denying the self to enjoy new life in Christ is here - "and they loved not their soul-life even unto death."

With these three tactical weapons the believers overcome. It doesn't matter what the accuser Satan accuses. We overcome in Christ's redemptive blood. We overcome by proclaiming the truth of God's word. We overcome by saying "Not I ... But Christ".

It does not say that they overcame because they made no more mistakes anymore. It does not say they overcame because they were perfect and never had any failings in their Christian walk. It does not say they overcame because they kept the law of Moses without failures.

They firstly overcame because their righteous covering is Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. His redemptive blood has shattered into oblivion all the accusations of Satan against the saints. That is just the beginning. We have to stand upon the finished work of the Lamb Jesus on His cross to JUSTIFY us.

Originally posted by sonhouse
That is the most asinine answer you have come up with in years.

Originally posted by sonship
You seem to be trying to scold me that it was a process, a development to open up my heart in regard to the other Bible books.

Originally posted by HandyAndy
Moses deserves your respect. You should think more carefully before you blurt things out.

Originally posted by sonship
The majority of Christians will most certainly miss the first rapture which is secret, sudden, unexpected, and pre-tribulation. They will be taken from the [b]living Christians as in Firstfruits (and other examples in Matthew 24 after verse 31) and they will be taken from saints who died in bygone years, as in the Manchild.

With ...[text shortened]... ome the salvation and the POWER and the KINGDOM of our God and the AUTHORITY of His Christ."[/b][/b]

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I deserve respect, where is it? Who gonna give robbie respect?😵

Originally posted by HandyAndy
Redbadger. Just don't piss on his chips.

Originally posted by HandyAndy
I was scolding you for suggesting that Moses was a charlatan.

It is quite true that God can keep Christians through tribulation. But He does not tell us to go looking for it that we may find some to pass through it.

The command of Christ was to pray that we escape the things which are coming suddenly upon the whole world but rather prevail to stand before Christ.

"But take heed to yourselves lest perhaps your hearts be weighed down with debauchery and drunkeness and the anxieties of life, and that day come upon you suddenly as a snare.

For it will come in upon all those dwelling on the face of the earth. But be watchful at every time, beseeching that you would prevail to escape all these things which are about to happen and stand before the Son of Man." (Luke 21:34-36)

1.) The trial is coming suddenly upon all dwelling on earth.

2.) The response is to watch and pray that we may prevail.

3.) To be raptured pre-triublation and stand before the Son of Man in the third heavens, is therefore the result of obedience to the Lord's command.

Originally posted by sonship
Rapture here is a matter of strategic advantage in spiritual warfare over the planet. For God's kingdom to come, the need for some overcomers to be raptured up temporarily is critical.

When some overcoming and victorious believers are early raptured, along with their salvation God's need to establish His kingdom on earth is also secured. Our overcoming i ...[text shortened]... beginning. We have to stand upon the finished work of the Lamb Jesus on His cross to JUSTIFY us.