Originally posted by robbie carrobieI have benefited from becoming an ex-Christian, as I have explained. Aside from that ~ and ever since I answered your question ~ our conversation does seem to have been about you not understanding what I've said and nothing else.
Another illogical and irrational slice of babble. Its not about me nor my understanding. Whats its actually about is whether anyone has benefited from rejecting the Christ and as you cannot say why rejecting Jesus may be construed as beneficial or why adhering to the teaching of the Christ is intellectually limiting we shall just have to leave it at that.
Originally posted by FMFLets ask you how adhering to the teachings of Jesus is conducive to intellectual stagnation for as eminent a mind as J.S. Mill have argued quite the opposite stating that adhering to the teachings of the Christ leaves a person in an excellent moral state which is entirely beneficial and conducive for reasoning.
I have benefited from becoming an ex-Christian, as I have explained. Aside from that ~ and ever since I answered your question ~ our conversation does seem to have been about you not understanding what I've said and nothing else.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI am no longer subscribing to the claims that Christians make about Him [that's all I have "rejected" ~ I have rejected a mythology] so it's been a spiritual release and the whole thing has been the result of what I see as spiritual maturation. I am no longer bound by religionist dogma that I no longer believe in [i.e. now more honest with myself]. I am in a much more spiritually and intellectually healthy place. Looking back, the whole manufactured concept of "salvation" seems so limiting and convoluted [i.e. I have a fresh and more realistic perspective.].
Lets ask you how adhering to the teachings of Jesus is conducive to intellectual stagnation for as eminent a mind as J.S. Mill have argued quite the opposite stating that adhering to the teachings of the Christ leaves a person in an excellent moral state which is entirely beneficial and conducive for reasoning.
Originally posted by FMFIgnore the Christians for the time being .. what do you think of the teachings of Christ? As I ask that question I remember Gandhi said 'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'. Maybe you subscribe to Gandhis view.
But I do not subscribe to the claims that Christians make about Christ.
Originally posted by Rajk999Ha ha maybe! I don't accept the theological stuff about "salvation", "forgiveness of sins", "resurrection", "trinity" [and even loads of Christians don't buy into that], "afterlife" etc. etc. But as for the non-supernatural teachings of Christ, they are obviously positive ~ and there's a lot of practical wisdom there regarding interactions with others. I am clearly someone who has been influenced by that part of the teachings strongly having been around it and in amongst it for almost 50 years. If I had been one of the early Christians I probably would have been in one of those sects that got stamped out for not believing in Christ's divinity!
Ignore the Christians for the time being .. what do you think of the teachings of Christ? As I ask that question I remember Gandhi said 'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'. Maybe you subscribe to Gandhis view.
I probably do subscribe to Gandhi's view although most of the Christians I know here in Indonesia [and have known in Australia, Japan and Britain] in 'real life' have been pretty good people ~ certainly somewhat different,on the whole, from the motley bunch of Christians here on this Forum, many of whom [but not all] are pompous, joyless, duckspeaking, self-consumed, lacking in generosity of spirit, technocratic, etc. etc. 🙂
Originally posted by FMFWell thats positive, and its what I suspected since the Good Samaritan thread I started some time ago. Christ is not interested in those who claim to believe in Him with their mouth but those whose belief has transformed their hearts and made them into better [more Christlike] human beings. Although you did not say it clearly it seems that Christ teachings made you a better person overall. So whether you like it or not you are in fact a greater follower of Christ than Christians who say they follow Christ, but choose to ignore his commandments ...😀
Ha ha maybe! I don't accept the theological stuff about "salvation", "forgiveness of sins", "resurrection", "trinity" [and even loads of Christians don't buy into that], "afterlife" etc. etc. But as for the non-supernatural teachings of Christ, they are obviously positive ~ and there's a lot of practical wisdom there regarding interactions with others. I am clea ...[text shortened]... duckspeaking, self-consumed, lacking in generosity of spirit, technocratic, etc. etc. 🙂
Let me know if you want references FMF the Christian ..😀
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Originally posted by FMFSo does this mean that you believe you are free to believe and do whatever you wish and you do not have to worry about Hell or receiving your part in the Lake of Fire?
I am [b]no longer subscribing to the claims that Christians make about Him [that's all I have "rejected" ~ I have rejected a mythology] so it's been a spiritual release and the whole thing has been the result of what I see as spiritual maturation. I am no longer bound by religionist dogma that I no longer believe in [i.e. now more honest wit ...[text shortened]... " seems so limiting and convoluted [b][i.e. I have a fresh and more realistic perspective.].[/b]
Originally posted by RJHindsThe Lake of Fire and Hell are imaginary. And, yes, I am free to believe that. I am bound by my moral code ~ which I believe is more or less hard wired into me, with the details filled in by my socialization ~ and I am bound by the laws that apply where I live.
So does this mean that you believe you are free to believe and do whatever you wish and you do not have to worry about Hell or receiving your part in the Lake of Fire?
Originally posted by FMFSo for you, man's law is more important than God's law. right?
The Lake of Fire and Hell are imaginary. And, yes, I am free to believe that. I am bound by my moral code ~ which I believe is more or less hard wired into me, with the details filled in by my socialization ~ and I am bound by the laws that apply where I live.
Originally posted by RJHindsIf I were to subscribe to the "God's law" that you imagine there to be, and if I subscribed to it in the same way as you do, presumably I would place it above "man's law". Is that what you do?
So for you, man's law is more important than God's law. right?
Originally posted by FMFI believe God's law is a higher moral law than any of Man's, including where you live.
If I were to subscribe to the "God's law" that you imagine there to be, and if I subscribed to it in the same way as you do, presumably I would place it above "man's law". Is that what you do?
Originally posted by RJHindsPerhaps Rajk999's point was lost on you. His point, in my view, was more or less directed at those who claim to believe in Christ with their mouths but whose beliefs haven't transformed their hearts and made them into better human beings.
Then I don't see how Rajk999 could not believe your claim that you are not a Christian. I believe you.