Originally posted by FMFBeen there done that!
If this is so, you probably need to read more stuff that challenges your beliefs and stuff that poses straight forward questions that go right to the heart of what you personally hold to be the "truth".
No matter what one says you have to contradict it in some way. Especially Christian theology. For someone who claims not to know the truth you sure seem to know what it's not! What a quagmire of mental gymnastics you have developed for yourself!
Truth isn't something one defines. Truth defines itself and is revealed by itself to another. One can tell another a truth, but one doesn't give definition to the truth. No one creates truth. Truth is, and truth has its own meaning objectively of another's will. I can only speak obliquely of the truth while the truth itself speaks directly to the hearer. I can say the sun shines, but until it shines on the one I am speaking to, that one won't comprehend it.
We humans don't create or define truth. We discover truth when it finds us.
Our response is all that matters.
When the truth finds us we are then without debate against it.
Originally posted by josephwThis isn't really a debating point, josephw.
What a quagmire of mental gymnastics you have developed for yourself!
If you can answer any of my questions about the Noah story on this thread, then answer them.
If you can't, then don't. Or say so.
If you don't want to, then don't.
Telling me that I am in some kind of "quagmire" doesn't achieve anything and it certainly doesn't enhance your claim that God has revealed Himself to you.
Originally posted by josephwI am pretty convinced that you don't have anything true about God to tell me, in much the same way as I don't think my devout Muslim neighbour has either. The same goes for Hindus that I have discussed "God" with. I don't think the answer is to be found in religion. I tried yours for nearly 30 years so my conclusion that Christianity is what it's not [when it comes to the truth] has not been arbitrary, hasty or uninformed.
For someone who claims not to know the truth you sure seem to know what it's not!
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"I am pretty convinced that you don't have anything true about God to tell me,.."
I will tell you something true about God, and you can reject that truth if you will.
God caused it to be recorded that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth".
God caused it to be told so that you can know the truth about how things came into being.
Do with it as you will, but you are not qualified to tell me that what you think is relevant to the telling of the truth since you have nothing to tell of the truth by your own admission. That is what is so obtuse about your line of reasoning. You fail to see the logic of my position, that is that the truth tells itself, that I am only reporting to you, but you continue to slip into the mindset you have developed for yourself that no one knows the truth, so therefore you won't acknowledge the truth when you hear it.
You're way over complicating the truth. It's as simple as, "In the beginning...", or as Jesus said, "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."
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Originally posted by josephwMaybe you didn't read the last sentence of my previous post. I tried your religion for nearly 30 years. My conclusion that Christian belief and doctrine is not the way to the truth has not been neither arbitrary, hasty nor uninformed.
[b]"I am pretty convinced that you don't have anything true about God to tell me,.."
I will tell you something true about God, and you can reject that truth if you will.
God caused it to be recorded that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth".
God caused it to be told so that you can know the truth about how things came into be ...[text shortened]... imple as, "In the beginning...", or as Jesus said, "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."[/b]
Originally posted by josephwThis sounds suspiciously like, Hey FMF, any "truth" will do ~ it's better than doubt and curiosity ~ I claim to know the "truth" and you claim not to: so I win... etc. etc. It's not a very convincing pitch on your part.
Do with it as you will, but you are not qualified to tell me that what you think is relevant to the telling of the truth since you have nothing to tell of the truth by your own admission.
Originally posted by josephwDasa could have said this. He'd have slipped the words "honest"or "dishonest"in there somewhere. But the way you are talking to me is not really different from the was Dasa talks to people.
That is what is so obtuse about your line of reasoning. You fail to see the logic of my position, that is that the truth tells itself, that I am only reporting to you, but you continue to slip into the mindset you have developed for yourself that no one knows the truth, so therefore you won't acknowledge the truth when you hear it.
Originally posted by josephwIt is all well and good for you to keep saying stuff this, but I do not subscribe to the claims that Christians like yourself make about your God figure and Jesus.
God caused it to be recorded that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". [...] You're way over complicating the truth. It's as simple as, "In the beginning...", or as Jesus said, "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."
Are you willing to answer any of the questions I asked about Noah, his three sons,and the world's racial diversity? You don't have to if you can't or don't want to.
Originally posted by josephwCurious use of the words "logic" and "truth" and "therefore".
[b] That is what is so obtuse about your line of reasoning. You fail to see the logic of my position, that is that the truth tells itself, that I am only reporting to you, but you continue to slip into the mindset you have developed for yourself that no one knows the truth, so therefore you won't acknowledge the truth when you hear it.
/b]
Suggest you wiki all three.
Then either:
re-define those words
or
apologise for your ignorance
or
accept your ignorance and do not respond at all.
Originally posted by josephwOK then,well this means you will be easily able to answer these point blank questions about what you claim to be the "truth".
Your posts show a total loss of subtlety of thought, and only an exaggerated need to dissimulate all meaning of truth.
Who did Noah's grandchildren procreate with? Their cousins? Their brothers and sisters?
How did Noah manage to have a Caucasian son, a Negro son, and a Mongoloid son or, if that wasn't it, how did he manage to have three sons whose procreation was able to result in the Caucasians, Negroids, and Mongoloids that we have today?
Was Noah himself a Caucasian, a Negroid, or a Mongoloid? What about his wife? What about the wives of his sons?
Originally posted by FMFWere you devout? Were you serious? Were you led by your heart in your conviction to God? Did the Holy Spirit come to dwell in you?
Maybe you didn't read the last sentence of my previous post. I tried your religion for nearly 30 years. My conclusion that Christian belief and doctrine is not the way to the truth has not been neither arbitrary, hasty nor uninformed.
If not, *why* not? I think this might be where the answer lies.
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Originally posted by SuzianneYes.
Were you devout? Were you serious? Were you led by your heart in your conviction to God? Did the Holy Spirit come to dwell in you?
I am not looking for an "answer" as to why I ended up an ex-Christian. Becoming an ex-Christian WAS the answer! 😉