Originally posted by telerionSorry for the ignore; guess I didn't see it.
How obvious was Freaky's ignore of my questions?
Let me help you out Freak. Is a world more perfect without evil and without free will or with evil and free will.
I've not considered the term 'more perfect' outside of the preamble.
Your question assumes God's intent in creating man on earth was for perfection: it wasn't.
Obviously, if God's intent was merely perfection, never would anything have been created, and He would have spent eternity past, eternity future, perfectly content within Himself. I think we can all say, thank God He didn't.
Originally posted by KneverKnightWhat lies awaiting discovery is vast. Once we get to the end of that information, than perhaps we can begin worrying about what has not been revealed.
It's one thing to be happy, another to be ignorant, unless ingnorance is bliss in which case, be happy and stop looking.
First things first.
Originally posted by NordlysThere are carnivores which can't survive without eating meat or getting supplements which are not found naturally.
There are carnivores which can't survive without eating meat or getting supplements which are not found naturally. I assume they must have had a different digestive system and different teeth before they were carnivores. How did that change happen? Was it just some God-magic happening all at once, or did it happen over a long time in an evolutionary process? And why did he want them to be carnivores?
Really? Naturally? Like "modern-naturally"? Would you care to substantiate which carnivores these are? 😀
Originally posted by HalitoseCats (there may be others). They need taurine, among other things. http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html (I know someone who has perfectly healthy cats which don't get meat, but they get supplements)
[b]There are carnivores which can't survive without eating meat or getting supplements which are not found naturally.
Really? Naturally? Like "modern-naturally"? Would you care to substantiate which carnivores these are? 😀[/b]
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesIf i wanted to hit you i have the free will to do so. If there was a god and he stoped me then he would take away my freedom same goes with me stealing from you killing you etc...
This is simply untrue.
You cannot go to a car dealership and buy a car for $10. Does this missing option mean you have no free will with respect to buying cars? No, for there are several other courses of action you may take, and you may determine which course you follow.
A limited set of choices does not entail a lack of free will. God could ...[text shortened]... mong a variety of good courses of action. Man would still exhibit free will in such a universe.
Originally posted by Will EverittIf I wanted to kill you, I wouldn't be able to do so, because I don't know where you are and can't kill by thought. Has God taken away my freedom by not giving me the ability to kill by thought?
If i wanted to hit you i have the free will to do so. If there was a god and he stoped me then he would take away my freedom same goes with me stealing from you killing you etc...
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Originally posted by Nordlys3 Sages
If I wanted to kill you, I wouldn't be able to do so, because I don't know where you are and can't kill by thought. Has God taken away my freedom by not giving me the ability to kill by thought?
Henham
Bishops Stortford
[EDIT] Go for it
Originally posted by NordlysInteresting. I'm not too sure if this one got supplementary taurine:
Cats (there may be others). They need taurine, among other things. http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html (I know someone who has perfectly healthy cats which don't get meat, but they get supplements)
http://www.fruitnut.net/index2.htm?PAG=64LittleTyke,REF=
Originally posted by scottishinnzThe plants lived, take an apple from a tree does not kill the tree,
No death before the fall?
Does that mean that the plants were still alive when they were being digested? Or are plants not alive?
but fruit I don't believe was part what I was talking about. Man's
life and I suppose those of animals the living creatures that moved
about the planet would have lived. I used to say there was no death,
but someone pointed out what occurs to the fruit and I had to change
my mind on that point.
Kelly
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThat is a load a bunk, Satan simply twisted reality before Adam and
Truth be told, and it will, if it weren't for Satan's objection to his sentence, man would have never entered the scene.
Eve and they went for it. Satan's objection was that he wasn't God
and wanted others to be as unhappy about it as he was.
Kelly
Originally posted by telerionThe world is more perfect when love is the driving force behind all that
How obvious was Freaky's ignore of my questions?
Let me help you out Freak. Is a world more perfect without evil and without free will or with evil and free will.
is said and done. Evil is simply a twist on reality a breaking from the
the truth, if all free will were centered around truth and love the power
of evil would simply be mute when it came to choices.
Kelly
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Originally posted by KellyJayOk, this is probably off-topic (it has nothing to do with Noahs Ark), but I have to pick you up on this one. I'm not a christian scholar (which is embarrasingly obvious if you read my posts) but I thought Lucifer is a fallen angel. Angels is what we become when we die, right? How can lucifer have preceeded humanity? (For Adam was the first human, was he not?)
That is a load a bunk, Satan simply twisted reality before Adam and
Eve and they went for it. Satan's objection was that he wasn't God
and wanted others to be as unhappy about it as he was.
Kelly
I've read somewhere, an interesting article, about Nero (you know, the caesar of the roman empire that had half of rome burnt to the ground to build his garden? Thus, the name Nero for the CD-burner program that's become so popular in recent years? Oh, I'm getting besides myself here...) being the earthly satan. If that's true, then clearly satan didn't exist before Nero (and certainly not before Adam). Or, has he always existed? Which makes you wonder, if Satan is as eternal as God?
Originally posted by stockenNo angels are spiritual beings a different lifeform altogether.
Ok, this is probably off-topic (it has nothing to do with Noahs Ark), but I have to pick you up on this one. I'm not a christian scholar (which is embarrasingly obvious if you read my posts) but I thought Lucifer is a fallen angel. Angels is what we become when we die, right? How can lucifer have preceeded humanity? (For Adam was the first human, was he not ...[text shortened]... not before Adam). Or, has he always existed? Which makes you wonder, is Satan as eternal as God?
The NT book of Hebrews can give you a clue, here is a small part
of the passages that speak about angels and man.
Hebrews 2:5-18
5It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6But there is a place where someone has testified:
"What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
7You made him a little lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
8and put everything under his feet? In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. 12He says,
"I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises."
13And again,
"I will put my trust in him." And again he says,
"Here am I, and the children God has given me."
14Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. 17For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHDoes this mean that God's design is imperfect?
Sorry for the ignore; guess I didn't see it.
I've not considered the term 'more perfect' outside of the preamble.
Your question assumes God's intent in creating man on earth was for perfection: it wasn't.
Obviously, if God's intent was merely perfection, never would anything have been created, and He would have spent eternity past, eternity future, perfectly content within Himself. I think we can all say, thank God He didn't.
Anyway, you're dodging the question a bit. Let me rephrase. You've suggested that free will can only obtain in a world with evil. I'm asking if it is better to have a world with evil and free will or one without evil and without free will.