16 Dec 05
Originally posted by telerionIn the beginning when everything was called very good, we all ate
I'm not aware of any passage before the Flood that indicates that some of the vegetarian animals became carnivores. It is possible that this was part of the Curse. On the other hand, right after the Flood, God tells Noah and his kids that the animals will be filled with dread of them and that they should eat animals, but it doesn't mention animals eatin ...[text shortened]... fundie response that I've heard before (maybe from KJ?), so I thought I'd throw it out there.
plants.
KJ
Gen 1: 29-30
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
16 Dec 05
Originally posted by aardvarkhomeI can only guess at this question.
\why not prevent evil then?
I suppose that it is better if we control ourselves than have to have
God put an evil governor within in us, stopping us from doing the
evil we would do if given the chance. Evil does get stopped, it is only
a short term issue within the Kingdom of God, once judgment day
is over, evil's time is done, forever.
Kelly
16 Dec 05
Originally posted by KellyJayYes, I had refreshed my memory of those exact verses before my post. The question No1 raises is whether the carnivores we see today became non-plant eaters as a result of the Curse or only after the Flood.
In the beginning when everything was called very good, we all ate
plants.
KJ
Gen 1: 29-30
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that mov ...[text shortened]... t he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
16 Dec 05
Originally posted by KellyJayThere are carnivores which can't survive without eating meat or getting supplements which are not found naturally. I assume they must have had a different digestive system and different teeth before they were carnivores. How did that change happen? Was it just some God-magic happening all at once, or did it happen over a long time in an evolutionary process? And why did he want them to be carnivores?
In the beginning when everything was called very good, we all ate
plants.
KJ
Gen 1: 29-30
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that mov ...[text shortened]... ad made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
16 Dec 05
Originally posted by NordlysThat's a good question. I'll add another observation:
There are carnivores which can't survive without eating meat or getting supplements which are not found naturally. I assume they must have had a different digestive system and different teeth before they were carnivores. How did that change happen? Was it just some God-magic happening all at once, or did it happen over a long time in an evolutionary process? And why did he want them to be carnivores?
The "Christian" anti-evolutionists are always claiming that no speciation has been observed by Man (this isn't true but pretend it is). However, to fit the proper number of animals on the Ark, they claim that not all species were present but only creatures like "cat things" which latter evolved into all the types of cats - lions, tigers, leopards, etc. etc. etc. They then talk about various other "things" of this sort which became all the animals. How do they explain the this mass speciation in less than 10,000 years?
16 Dec 05
Originally posted by FreakyKBHWho's fault is that? God shouldn't have chosen to design free will in a way that made it incompatible with a non-fallen Creation.
Prevention of evil would require lack of free will.
Which, presently, are you more concerned with?
Is a world without evil but also without free will more perfect than a world with evil and with free will?
16 Dec 05
2 edits
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThis is simply untrue.
Prevention of evil would require lack of free will.
You cannot go to a car dealership and buy a car for $10. Does this missing option mean you have no free will with respect to buying cars? No, for there are several other courses of action you may take, and you may determine which course you follow.
A limited set of choices does not entail a lack of free will. God could have designed the universe such that man could only choose among a variety of good courses of action. Man would still exhibit free will in such a universe.
16 Dec 05
Originally posted by NordlysThis goes back to an argument that I used a long time ago on this site. I call it the Argument from Little Red Riding Hood. It goes as follows:
There are carnivores which can't survive without eating meat or getting supplements which are not found naturally. I assume they must have had a different digestive system and different teeth before they were carnivores. How did that change happen? Was it just some God-magic happening all at once, or did it happen over a long time in an evolutionary process? And why did he want them to be carnivores?
T: Oh lion, what powerful hind legs and chest, soft paws, and long sleek tail you have!
L: All the better to sneak up quietly on things and chase them down in a flash with.
T: Oh lion, what needle-sharp claws you have!
L: All the better to dig in and pull things to the ground with.
T: Oh lion, what powerful jaws and long wicked incisors you have.
L: All the better to chew berries, nuts, and grains with after I have finished stalking them, chasing them down, and pulling them to the ground.
16 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesAbsolutely, when oh when will fundies understand choice theory and that continuous, real-valued functions attain a maximum over a compact set?
This is simply untrue.
You cannot go to a car dealership and buy a car for $10. Does this missing option mean you have no free will with respect to buying cars? No, for there are several other courses of action you may take, and you may determine which course you follow.
A limited set of choices does not entail a lack of free will. God could ...[text shortened]... mong a variety of good courses of action. Man would still exhibit free will in such a universe.
17 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThere were multiple good choices to be had in the Garden. The center piece of the tree of the knowldege of good and evil was in answer to Satan's charge.
This is simply untrue.
You cannot go to a car dealership and buy a car for $10. Does this missing option mean you have no free will with respect to buying cars? No, for there are several other courses of action you may take, and you may determine which course you follow.
A limited set of choices does not entail a lack of free will. God could ...[text shortened]... mong a variety of good courses of action. Man would still exhibit free will in such a universe.
To only allow nothing but good still limits the free will to but one choice. Satan's charge required the real choice of blindly trusting God, or getting some knowledge for themselves.
17 Dec 05
Originally posted by FreakyKBHSo basically, it was Satan that provided man the opportunity to exercise free will, even if god provided the actual ability. hmm, sounds like that Satan chap's been getting abit of a bum deal here...
There were multiple good choices to be had in the Garden. The center piece of the tree of the knowldege of good and evil was in answer to Satan's charge.
To only allow nothing but good still limits the free will to but one choice. Satan's charge required the real choice of blindly trusting God, or getting some knowledge for themselves.