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Originally posted by robbie carrobieNo... that is what the Apostle PAUL is saying. The children of God will make up Gods Kingdom. All those who have accepted Christ are Gods children. Christ will judge who has and who has not accepted him... not you and your twisted Watchtower Pharisees.
so Gods Kingdom is people who have accepted Christ? is that what you are saying?
Perhaps you could make a reference to some of Christ's teachings, he does rather
mention it, like all the time! Never the less, i dont want to hijack your works v faith
thread.
The JWs have a different definition from Paul about what is Gods Kingdom. This thread is NOT about works v faith. Its about how JWs like yourself have perverted the gospel of Christ and attempted to exclude non-JWs from Gods kingdom, something only arrogant churches do.
In the time of Paul the Jews had attempted to do a similar disservice to the saving grace of the death of Christ by claiming that circumcision was necessary for eternal life, and Paul condemned them in the strongest language. Read Galatians.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Lol, you seem to be more adept at quoting watchtower articles than Biblical scripture in
No... that is what the Apostle PAUL is saying. The children of God will make up Gods Kingdom. All those who have accepted Christ are Gods children. Christ will judge who has and who has not accepted him... not you and your twisted Watchtower Pharisees.
The JWs have a different definition from Paul about what is Gods Kingdom. This thread is NOT about works ...[text shortened]... s necessary for eternal life, and Paul condemned them in the strongest language. Read Galatians.
your attempts to establish your lines of reason, id say, in your last posts it runs at
round 90 percent watchtower articles and ten percent scripture. Keep telling yourself
whatever it is you need to justify hiding your love away. I am sure when Jesus returns
and asks for his talents back, you can tell him that you hid them in the ground.
Originally posted by galveston75Galveston, first of all, millions or billions or trillions of hours of research cannot lead you to think that the gospel/doctrine of the JWs is superior to the gospel preached by Paul. If it does then you belong to a cult.
What are the "works" we as Christians are to be doing? What do the parables that Jesus spoke about tell us? What did Jesus's immediate followers do? I don't expect you to answer them all but others can comment too.
A comment I want to make and it's something that I have seen from the first time I joined RHP and started to comment here in the spiritua ...[text shortened]... sit and say we believe in Jesus and think that's it. Don't let satan fool you.
Pauls message is complete.
Rom_15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Paul was sent by Christ and he had power of the Holy Spirit. Are you saying that JW founders are superior to that?
Second, there is no Christian anywhere who seriously believes that they can continue to lead a sinful life and still be saved by grace. They might like to think so but their conscience will not allow them to fool themselves. However Im sure that Christ will be far more forgiving [than JWs] on the day of judgment even though his followers have not succeeded in leading a perfect sinless life. Christ does not expect perfection, but rather he expects us to try to be like him and walk in his footsteps, and he knows that our sinful nature will cause us to fail. Again all Christians know what walking in Christ footsteps involves.
Third, Christ will judge people according to their works and every Christian also knows that. You should leave the judging to Christ.
Finally, you continue to speak with a forked tongue. You say that you have the TRUTH which other churches dont have and then say that you are not better off. In the last 4 years, both you and RC have consistently claimed that JWs are doctrinaly and morally superior to all other religions.
Clearly you dont believe that Paul's teachings are correct or complete. I would suggest that you focus on this failing of the JW faith which is very serious, instead of criticising others.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieGal 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Lol, you seem to be more adept at quoting watchtower articles than Biblical scripture in
your attempts to establish your lines of reason, id say, in your last posts it runs at
round 90 percent watchtower articles and ten percent scripture. Keep telling yourself
whatever it is you need to justify hiding your love away. I am sure when Jesus returns
and asks for his talents back, you can tell him that you hid them in the ground.
JWs are preaching a different gospel from Paul. Therefore according to Paul, JWs are accursed.
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Originally posted by Rajk999hey you got to hide your love away!
Gal 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed s are preaching a different gospel from Paul. Therefore according to Paul, JWs are accursed.[/b][/b]
dedicated to all nominal Christians everywhere! dig ya'll!
Originally posted by Rajk999Why do you think we are superior to anything Paul said?
Galveston, first of all, millions or billions or trillions of hours of research cannot lead you to think that the gospel/doctrine of the JWs is superior to the gospel preached by Paul. If it does then you belong to a cult.
Pauls message is complete.
[i]Rom_15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusale ...[text shortened]... you focus on this failing of the JW faith which is very serious, instead of criticising others.
How do we contradict what he said?
Did Jesus not say to preach the gospel?
Did Paul not preach the gospel?
Do we not go door to door as they both did to preach the gospel?
Where have we said that anyone is now is condemned?
Who have we judged?
When did we say we are superior?
Your missing the point. Life's are at stake, millions of them. The Bible makes it clear so many times of where this world is going and that MOST will not survive "Jehovah's Day" as the Bible describes it.
It is a Christians honor, respondsability and a direct command from Jesus to teach and inform all that can possilby be reached, even by foot, to educate them about the very near future.
Yes it is up to Jesus and his Father who deserves life, not us. But being uneducated in spiritual things must be the key or else ones like Paul would not have dedicated his life to the preaching and teaching work and Jesus would have not by example gone out and teach.
We all have to do this and this is a main issue here between all of us. We are not superior but just want all of you to see this is what all of you should be doing.
How is that wrong??????????????????
Originally posted by Rajk999Explain how we pervert the gospel of Christ?
[i] Gal 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed ...[text shortened]... s are preaching a different gospel from Paul. Therefore according to Paul, JWs are accursed.[/b]
Originally posted by galveston75So exactly what Christ and Paul preached is exactly what the JWs preach.
Why do you think we are superior to anything Paul said?
How do we contradict what he said?
Did Jesus not say to preach the gospel?
Did Paul not preach the gospel?
Do we not go door to door as they both did to preach the gospel?
Where have we said that anyone is now is condemned?
Who have we judged?
When did we say we are superior?
Your miss ...[text shortened]... of you to see this is what all of you should be doing.
How is that wrong??????????????????
Good, then you have nothing to worry about.
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Originally posted by Rajk999We think so but you apparently you don't. Could you tell me what it is we're doing wrong? If it is truly scripturally wrong I want to know so I can show that to the elders in my hall.
So exactly what Christ and Paul preached is exactly what the JWs preach.
Good, then you have nothing to worry about.
Originally posted by galveston75How many of these below, are supported by a clear statement from either Christ or Paul. Please dont include your personal biased interpretation. For example, JWs are not allowed to celebrate birthdays becuse there is no reference to anyone in the Bible except gentiles apparently celebrating birthdays. That is a nonsense argument.
We think so but you apparently you don't. Could you tell me what it is we're doing wrong? If it is truly scripturally wrong I want to know so I can show that to the elders in my hall.
The doctrine of Christ and Paul and rules governing conduct are clearly stated. Celebrating birthdays does not violate any of those rules. This is just one of dozens of examples of how the JW organisation have become petty and childish in their thinking.
141 and More Things Jehovah's Witnesses Can't Do.
1.Belong to another organization or club for the purpose of socializing with nonbelievers
2.Have best friends and activity buddies who are not Jehovah's Witnesses. See Friendship with Non-believers
3.Consider the viewpoints of Jehovah's Witnesses who leave the organization. See Apostate Lies
4.Associate with people outside their organization when it is not necessary
5.Attend social functions sponsored by their employer unless attendance is required
6.Associate with coworkers after business hours in a social settings
7.Disagree with their organization's rules and code of conduct.
8.Disagree with their organization's doctrines. See Can Jehovah's Witnesses Disagree?
9.Unless they're an Elder, Jehovah's Witnesses cannot read this book: 'Shepherd the Flock of God' - 1 Peter 5:2
10.Contribute to the Presidential Campaign Fund on their tax return
11.Join the armed forces and defend their country
12.Say the Pledge of Allegiance
13.Salute the flag
14.Vote
15.Run for leadership in their organization
16.Run for leadership in any organization
17.Take a stand for any political issue inside their organization
18.Take a stand on any political or 'worldly' issue outside of their organization
19.Campaign for a political candidate
20.Hold political office
21.Discuss politics
22.Be a union steward or shop steward
23.Actively be involved in a union strike
24.Use a gun for protection against humans
25.Become a police officer if a gun is required
26.Wear military uniforms or clothing associated with war
27.Take yoga classes and practice the discipline of yoga. See Is Yoga For Christians?
28.Smoke tobacco and cigars
29.Work full time selling tobacco and cigars
30.Attend Alcoholics Anonymous
31.Donate blood
32.Have blood transfusions
33.Read books, magazines, publications, and literature from other religions.
34.Buy anything from a church store
35.Buy something at a church garage sale
36.Donate items to a church run store
37.Shop at the Salvation Army
38.Work for the Salvation Army
39.Work for another church
40.Play competitive sports on a school team
41.Play competitive sports professionally
42.Run for class president
43.Become a cheerleader
44.Go to the school prom or school dance.
45.Attend class reunions
46.Be hypnotized
47.Accept Jesus as their mediator, 1 Timothy 2:5. See Mediator
48.Join the Boy Scouts
49.Join the Girl Guides
50.Join the YMCA
51.Serve on jury duty
52.Study psychology, philosophy, sociology, and viewpoints that might shake their faith
53.Attend other Christian churches
54.Attend nondenominational churches
55.Attend non Christian churches
56.Get married in another church
57.Dating non believers is discouraged
58.Casual dating is discouraged
59.Dating someone without the intent of getting married
60.Having sex before marriage
61.Breaking an engagement, separation, and 'unscriptural' divorce may result in disciplinary action
62.Marriage to non believers is not recommended
63.Be gay or lesbian. Homosexuality is not acceptable.
64.Throw rice at a wedding
65.Get divorced unless the reason is adultery
66.Can't remarry unless their ex commits fornication first
67.Toast drinks
68.Buy a raffle ticket
69.Play bingo
70.Gamble
71.Sing any holiday songs
72.Sing the National Anthem.
73.Celebrate Christmas - Why?
74.Celebrate New Years Eve - Why?
75.Celebrate Easter - Why?
76.Celebrate Mother's Day - Why?
77.Celebrate Father's Day
78.Celebrate birthdays - Why?
79.Celebrate Thanksgiving
80.Celebrate Flag Day
81.Celebrate Veteran's Day
82.Celebrate Independence Day. Why?
83.Celebrate Saint Patrick's Day
84.Celebrate Valentine's Day
85.Celebrate Halloween - Why?
86.Celebrate Hanukkah
87.Accept holiday gifts - Why?
88.Celebrate any holiday except the death of Jesus - Why?
89.Partake in the bread and wine that represents Christ unless they are part of the 144,000
90.Make holiday artwork for school
91.Engage in holiday parties at school
92.Take on a leadership role in school
93.Porneia
94.Do suggestive and immodest dancing in a public place
95.Attend a class, workshop, or seminar, sponsored by another church
96.Attend social events or fund raisers sponsored by another church
97.Use of bad language (curse words) is discouraged
98.Wear blue jeans, shorts, and overly casual clothing at the Kingdom Hall. See Dress Code
99.Wear pants at a Kingdom Hall if you're a woman
100.Wear revealing clothes or skirts that are too short (looked down upon)
101.Wear long hair or facial hair if you're a man (depends on the local customs of the country you live in)
102.Body piercings are discouraged
103.Tattoos are discouraged
104.State or imply that the Watchtower is not run by Jehovah God.
105.Have discussions and express Bible based viewpoints that contradict the organization's beliefs
106.Say anything negative about their organization. JW's must 'speak in agreement' and be 'like-minded'.
107.Consider other religious beliefs as valid and truthful.
108.Acknowledge any prayer spoken by a non believer as valid
109.Take another Jehovah's Witness to court (with exceptions)
110.Wear or own a cross
111.Own any religious picture
112.Own any religious statue
113.Engage in idolatry
114.Believe in miracles (except those found in the Bible) See Miracles
115.Believe in ghosts
116.Witchcraft
117.Black magic
118.White magic
119.Consult with a psychic or become one
120.Study tarot cards, get a reading or give a reading
121.Study numerology or get a reading
122.Dabble in ESP (extrasensory perception), dowsing, or divination
123.Use a tool such as a pendulum to access information from the spiritual realm
124.Attempt to communicate with departed spirits
125.Attend a seance
126.Believe in good luck or say things such as 'Good luck to you'. Why?
127.Believe in anything superstitious
128.Prophesy
129.Speaking in tongues
130.Laying on of hands
131.Energy healing such as Reiki
132.Read their horoscope
133.Study astrology or zodiac signs
134.Combat training, boxing, or martial arts
135.Go to heaven unless they are part of the 144,000 ( 144000 )
136.Worship Jesus as God
137.Idolize any celebrity or love and admire them to excess
138.Women can't be elders
139.Women can't be ministerial servants (assistants to the elders)
140.Divulge secret information to enemies and those not entitled to know. See Theocratic Warfare
141.Greet or talk with disfellowshipped persons (with some exceptions)
142.Associate with disfellowshipped persons except for immediate family living in the same house
143.Keep secrets from the organization. Jehovah's Witnesses report friends and family members breaking the rules
Originally posted by galveston75Lol, they gave me a good laugh.
Oh my gosh you have to be kidding? All of these have laboriously been discussed before.
You obviously don't really read our comments and the scriptures on these or you truly don't get it.
Do we really have to do this birthday stuff again?
Originally posted by galveston75Your explanations befre, for some of these, proved unacceptable to everyone on the site. Apparently you in your deluded state thought they were.
Oh my gosh you have to be kidding? All of these have laboriously been discussed before.
You obviously don't really read our comments and the scriptures on these or you truly don't get it.
Do we really have to do this birthday stuff again?
Originally posted by Rajk999Ok a simple challenge for you. If you can....
Your explanations befre, for some of these, proved unacceptable to everyone on the site. Apparently you in your deluded state thought they were.
Show me one piece of evidence that any of "God's true followers" at any time in history celibrated their birthday?
Nothing more, nothing less. Show me the proof from any source and we'll talk more about this.