1. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Oct '11 02:441 edit
    Consider this:

    - The Apostle Paul must have been among the few who truly understood the mind of Christ and he was sent by Christ to preach to the Gentiles. He would have preached to them all that was required for salvation.
    - But there was no New Testament and only few people had access to the Old testament and yet Paul must have converted thousands of Gentiles and set up dozens of Churches.
    - All they would have to go by is what Paul preached which in a nutshell was;
    - that Christ came and died for their sins.
    - that belief in him, repentance and baptism makes them adopted Jews and heirs according to the promise made to Abraham.
    - that it was important to live a righteous life .. good works.

    Conclusion: People throughout all eras and all walks of life would be judged by the same criteria. It would not matter if the person was an uneducated Greek who only heard the words of Paul, or a modern bible scholar with all the knowledge in the world at his fingertips.

    The question is how is it that so many religions [like the JWs, Mormons, SDAs, etc] have arisen all claiming to have the only Truth, and that Truth which they claim to have bears little resemblance to what Paul or any Apostle preached. Are they more inspired than Paul? Do they have a closer contact with Christ than anyone else? What ?
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    19 Oct '11 03:11
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Consider this:

    - The Apostle Paul must have been among the few who truly understood the mind of Christ and he was sent by Christ to preach to the Gentiles. He would have preached to them all that was required for salvation.
    - But there was no New Testament and only few people had access to the Old testament and yet Paul must have converted thousands o ...[text shortened]... they more inspired than Paul? Do they have a closer contact with Christ than anyone else? What ?
    Yet, we are not saved by our good works, but by the grace of God's mercy.
    So whoever believes and calls on the name (YAHshua) of the Lord Jesus
    the Christ shall be saved.
  3. Standard membermenace71
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    19 Oct '11 04:33
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Consider this:

    - The Apostle Paul must have been among the few who truly understood the mind of Christ and he was sent by Christ to preach to the Gentiles. He would have preached to them all that was required for salvation.
    - But there was no New Testament and only few people had access to the Old testament and yet Paul must have converted thousands o ...[text shortened]... they more inspired than Paul? Do they have a closer contact with Christ than anyone else? What ?
    People also need to remember Paul had an encounter on the road to Damascus with none other Than the risen Lord Jesus !!! Paul had direct contact with Jesus.

    Acts 9

    The Conversion of Saul

    1 Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, 2 and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. 3 As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; 4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” 5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, 6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.” 7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

    He ask Lord who are you? I am Jesus !!!

    Manny
  4. Standard membermenace71
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    19 Oct '11 04:36
    Well this is easy the JW's win hands down they have all knowledge and power and the NWT translation 😉 I want the cool Nike's and the fruit flavored cool aid LOL ohhh sorry wrong cult again




    Manny
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    19 Oct '11 06:124 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Consider this:

    - The Apostle Paul must have been among the few who truly understood the mind of Christ and he was sent by Christ to preach to the Gentiles. He would have preached to them all that was required for salvation.
    - But there was no New Testament and only few people had access to the Old testament and yet Paul must have converted thousands o ...[text shortened]... hey more inspired than Paul? Do they have a closer contact with Christ than anyone else? What ?
    1
    This is an excellent question and not one easily answered. Here is a feeble attempt at a couple of insights:

    Since the fall man has been technically Godless and in a state of pride , whereby he claims to not need a God. Pride is the original sin which keeps us separated from God; not primarily unbelief. This "Not needing God" is the same vein of pride that leads us into pride in the works of the flesh, instead of the flip-side which is faith without works is dead. The difference being motive. If our motive is to please God (to justify ourselves) through works we are not only doomed to failure but also operating from a base of latent pride.

    Our pride in our own efforts is often accompanied by fear; fear that our own efforts will not be enough to save us. Stop and consider this for a moment because it is a I believe a powerful insight: combine pride (the need to prove ourselves to God or not needing God) with a deep rooted fear that that effort will not be enough, and what do you get? Man creates his own temples, his own arcs, his own inner holy places which give him the security his fear craves.

    But the pride remains unsatisfied. So rules and ceremonies are developed; walls to get over through our own effort and process compliance, which when scaled or navigated give us access to the security our fear craves. The organisations we see today provide people with a comfort blanket for their fear but only if they adhere to the rules. The higher the wall to get in through effort, works, sacrifice etc - the greater the sense of security once you are in, and conversely the higher the wall to get back out!

    At the very least these organisations have statements of beliefs which must be adhered to and the worst they lay manacles on the laity's feet dialing up the fear into a black and white situation where if the person leaves they lose everything they think they gained through their works - their spiritual life savings. These are the cults, the extreme groups you mention.

    Salvation is in Christ alone through faith - we are commanded to do good works through that faith and in obedience to the spirit. Salvation does NOT depend on it though. The gift of eternal life if FREE we were purchased at a price, that price has been paid in full by God himself who made himself a little lower than the angels, and dwelt as the fullness of the Godhead in Jesus Christ reconciling HIMSELF to the world because he loves us. Because we are his only family - because like any Father he would give his life for his children's future.

    The cult like organisations keep God's people from entering this rest through faith because faith is the trumpet call of God and when that trumpet sounds the wall come down - Jericho falls.
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    19 Oct '11 08:15
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Yet, we are not saved by our good works, but by the grace of God's mercy.
    So whoever believes and calls on the name (YAHshua) of the Lord Jesus
    the Christ shall be saved.
    and does works.


    believing a serial killer would be saved just by asking to be saved is idiotic.
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Oct '11 11:11
    Originally posted by menace71
    People also need to remember Paul had an encounter on the road to Damascus with none other Than the risen Lord Jesus !!! Paul had direct contact with Jesus.

    Acts 9

    The Conversion of Saul

    1 Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, 2 and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at ...[text shortened]... s without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

    He ask Lord who are you? I am Jesus !!!

    Manny
    That plus he had several visits by Christ throughout his missionary travels.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Oct '11 11:23
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Yet, we are not saved by our good works, but by the grace of God's mercy.
    So whoever believes and calls on the name (YAHshua) of the Lord Jesus
    the Christ shall be saved.
    Would Christ save someone who just calls on his name and yet continues to sin?

    Paul, after explaining at length about the saving power of grace in Romans Chaps 3-5, answers that very question about the consequences of continuing to sin after accepting the power of Gods grace through faith in Christ. Read Chaps 6-8.
  9. Standard membermenace71
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    19 Oct '11 11:42
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Would Christ save someone who just calls on his name and yet continues to sin?

    Paul, after explaining at length about the saving power of grace in Romans Chaps 3-5, answers that very question about the consequences of continuing to sin after accepting the power of Gods grace through faith in Christ. Read Chaps 6-8.
    This is a tough one but when you become a Christian a follower of Christ you (we) should no longer want to sin or at least willfully sin against Christ. The being renewed or the change of mind and heart the being born again.

    Grace vs Works I think the two are the same coin different sides. God gives us the grace to do the works and from a correct heart we will do the works.


    Manny
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Oct '11 11:45
    Originally posted by divegeester
    This is an excellent question and not one easily answered. Here is a feeble attempt at a couple of insights:

    Since the fall man has been technically Godless and in a state of pride , whereby he claims to not need a God. Pride is the original sin which keeps us separated from God; not primarily unbelief. This "Not needing God" is the same vein of ...[text shortened]... is the trumpet call of God and when that trumpet sounds the wall come down - Jericho falls.
    Good response. More later.
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    19 Oct '11 11:57
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Consider this:

    - The Apostle Paul must have been among the few who truly understood the mind of Christ and he was sent by Christ to preach to the Gentiles. He would have preached to them all that was required for salvation.
    - But there was no New Testament and only few people had access to the Old testament and yet Paul must have converted thousands o ...[text shortened]... they more inspired than Paul? Do they have a closer contact with Christ than anyone else? What ?
    from someone who cannot even explain what Gods Kingdom is, using a Bible, haha and
    here you are, telling us what Paul taught and how it is at variance with other religious
    stances, feel your bum mate, try to get a handle on reality.
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Oct '11 11:59
    Originally posted by menace71
    This is a tough one but when you become a Christian a follower of Christ you (we) should no longer want to sin or at least willfully sin against Christ. The being renewed or the change of mind and heart the being born again.

    Grace vs Works I think the two are the same coin different sides. God gives us the grace to do the works and from a correct heart we will do the works.


    Manny
    That does not answer the question Manny. Nobody wants to know what will happen to someone who has accepted Christ and has a good heart. We know the answer. Plus we all know what we 'should' do.

    What if someone accepts Christ and is 'saved by grace' but continues to sin?

    And its not about grace v works. They dont oppose each other. They compliment each other. Grace comes to us through faith in Christ. Works demonstrates your faith in Christ. Without works it means that your heart was not transformed by the spirit.

    Jas 2:21-22 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Oct '11 12:10
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    from someone who cannot even explain what Gods Kingdom is, using a Bible, haha and
    here you are, telling us what Paul taught and how it is at variance with other religious
    stances, feel your bum mate, try to get a handle on reality.
    For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. ;
    (Galatians 3:26-29)

    All those people who have accepted Christ will make up Gods Kingdom.
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    19 Oct '11 12:342 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. ;[ ]
    (Galatians 3:26-29)

    All those people who have accepted Christ will make up Gods Kingdom.[/b]
    so Gods Kingdom is people who have accepted Christ? is that what you are saying?
    Perhaps you could make a reference to some of Christ's teachings, he does rather
    mention it, like all the time! Never the less, i dont want to hijack your works v faith
    thread.
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    19 Oct '11 13:23
    Originally posted by menace71
    This is a tough one but when you become a Christian a follower of Christ you (we) should no longer want to sin or at least willfully sin against Christ. The being renewed or the change of mind and heart the being born again.

    Grace vs Works I think the two are the same coin different sides. God gives us the grace to do the works and from a correct heart we will do the works.


    Manny
    What are the "works" we as Christians are to be doing? What do the parables that Jesus spoke about tell us? What did Jesus's immediate followers do? I don't expect you to answer them all but others can comment too.

    A comment I want to make and it's something that I have seen from the first time I joined RHP and started to comment here in the spiritual forum and that's about the perception that a few have here about the JW's.
    Yes we get defensive about our beliefs as everyone else here does. We are no different. And we are not perfect and sometimes react in ways that are not correct.
    So we are imperfect just as the rest of you all are. We do not think we're better or that we have some special blessing from God. We don't and if it comes across that way, it's wrong.
    Personally my original reason for ever commenting here at RHP is simply to share what I've learned not only from my studies but from the millions of hours of spiritual research by others that simply want the same thing and that is the TRUTH of the Bible.
    Religion as a whole has let paganistic and man made theories and doctrines slip in or have been purposley added by satan's influance and have poluted the clean truths of the Bible. Many of you know this has happened and that is why many of you have left the churches you were once a part of. You see some of these things and you have made a move to seperate yourselves from them.
    That's all the JW's have done.
    So this thought by a few of you that we think we are better is wrong. We are simply servants as we all should be and ones that should follow what Jesus told us to do. But I personally say to you all.......there is more that has to be done that Jesus has told us to do. We can't just sit and say we believe in Jesus and think that's it. Don't let satan fool you.
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