@sonship saidIt isn't reading comprehension he should be concern with, instead, is his Jesus alive or dead? Another dead guy's word is meaningless no matter what he said, but the Son of God, the Son of man who was raised from the dead, His words matter.
@KellyJay
The Jesus you preach about is alive or dead right now?
If you ask ThinkOfOne that he will probably embark on a little lecture on English reading comprehension.
@sonship saidIt reads like a long elaborate string of rationalizations for not becoming righteous. That is, for not becoming a son of God, for not becoming one with God, etc. as Jesus called His followers to do when He preached His gospel while He walked the Earth.
ToO,
Are you afraid to read Paul's letter to the Romans ?
In a way I can understand why so many buy into Paul's rationalizations. It's a way to avoid taking responsibility.
10 Mar 19
@thinkofone saidHow do you become righteous? You do it by your efforts?
It reads like a long elaborate string of rationalizations for not becoming righteous. That is, for not becoming a son of God, for not becoming one with God, etc. as Jesus called His followers to do when He preached His gospel while He walked the Earth.
In a way I can understand why so many buy into Paul's rationalizations. It's a way to avoid taking responsibility.
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It reads like a long elaborate string of rationalizations for not becoming righteous.
So when Paul raises questions which he has HEARD critics of the Gospel air, you agree with the implications of those questions?
For example:
" ... as we are slanderously charged and as some affirm that we say, Let us do evil, that good may come " (Rom. 6:8a)
You would say "Yes, that is right. You are teaching that Christians should DO EVIL so that by some twist of logic God may cause good to come."
Or when Paul repeats the rhetorical question and criticism that Christians should continue is sin.
What then shall we say? Should we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! ...(Rom. 6:1,2a)
Paul is acknowledging that his critics are asking such questions. You AGREE then with their critique of his Gospel?
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ToO,
On sons of God - the climax of the Gospel of God reached in Romans chapter eight-
That is, for not becoming a son of God,
If you did not father someone with your life seed, it doesn't matter how much they desire to be related to you as a SON. They cannot. They do not have your life.
Paul's letter is about the Justification that the divine life may be imparted into people. But he doesn't stop with God's life being imparted. He develops quite much God's life GROWING in the receivers to take them from children, to mature sons, to mature heirs - joint heirs with Christ.
Does your book of Romans only have three or four chapters and then you zone out? Or do you evaluate unfairly his writings based on the neglect of chapters beyond those on Justification (say from chapter five ON) ?
That would not be the fault of the Apostle Paul.
His gospel is THE gospel of God.
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for not becoming one with God, etc. as Jesus called His followers to do when He preached His gospel while He walked the Earth.
The climax of the book of the salvation outlined in Romans certainly IS to produce sons of God fully conformed to the image of the FIrstborn Son.
Romans 8:28,29
Because whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers.
And whom He predestinated, these He also called; and whom HE called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Faith sees that in the eyes of the transcendent God it has already ALL taken place. This gives power to the experience of Christ.
God wants Christ to walk the earth AGAIN today, but this time within those who are born of God and receive Christ into them.
You apparently are not for this.
You talk much about when HE walked the earth, but you totally fail to notice that God would have Him walk the earth AGAIN by those who follow the Spirit.
For as many as are lead by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
For you have not received a spirit of slavery to fear again, but you have received a spirit of sonship in which we cry Abba Father.
The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are the children of God. (Rom 8:14-16)
It is not Paul's fault if your book of Romans ends at chapter three. There are sixteen chapters.
@sonship saidWhat you've shown here is that you buy into Paul's long elaborate string of rationalizations for not becoming righteous. What you've shown here is that you believe in a different gospel.
for not becoming one with God, etc. as Jesus called His followers to do when He preached His gospel while He walked the Earth.
The climax of the book of the salvation outlined in Romans certainly IS to produce sons of God fully conformed to the image of the FIrstborn Son.
Romans 8:28,29
[quote] Because whom He foreknew, He also pre ...[text shortened]... is not Paul's fault if your book of Romans ends at chapter three. There are sixteen chapters.
According to the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth, in order to receive eternal life and live in the kingdom, one must make themselves righteous.
God explained the concept in passages such as the following:
Isaiah 1
16“Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight.
Cease to do evil,
17Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Reprove the ruthless,
Defend the orphan,
Plead for the widow.
Ezekiel 33
18“When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, then he shall die in it. 19“But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and practices justice and righteousness, he will live by them. 20“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways.”
Jesus echoed the concept in passages such as the following:
Matthew 5
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 16
24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25“For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
27“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
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@ThinkOfOne
[quote] What you've shown here is that you buy into Paul's long elaborate string of rationalizations for not becoming righteous. What you've shown here is that you believe in a different gospel. [quote]
I should buy into Paul's epistles. There is no reason why I should "buy into" so-called gospel teaching of a secretive Atheist in his elaborate explanations.
I am not going to "buy into" such philosophies as you have though they are cloaked in sayings like "Jesus while He walked on earth."
And you didn't answer the question. Paul shows certain QUESTIONS were circulating around as rumors about his ministry. They well could have been raised by people who thought exactly as you do.
"Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?"
"Let us to evil that good may come ..." (?)
Yor perversion is ancient. It is no "new understanding. It is old hat twisting of the words of Christ and His apostles.
That is all the time I can give this this morning.
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ThinkOfOne,
According to the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth, in order to receive eternal life and live in the kingdom,
I don't think you believe that there is a kingdom of God.
I don't think you believe that there is a kingdom of the heavens or kingdom of God or "kingdom of My Father" or a "kingdom of God and Christ" or "kingdom of their Father" or any other kingdom in which there is Divine authority in any sense at all.
It is divine authority and rulership to which you are working to eliminate from peoples' lives. A realm of divine rulership is exactly what you are trying to eliminate from people's minds.
You should stop trying to play us for fools.
@sonship saidThere is no reason why I should "buy into" so-called gospel teaching of a secretive Atheist in his elaborate explanations.
@ThinkOfOne
[quote] What you've shown here is that you buy into Paul's long elaborate string of rationalizations for not becoming righteous. What you've shown here is that you believe in a different gospel. [quote]
I should buy into Paul's epistles. There is no reason why I should "buy into" so-called gospel teaching of a secretive Atheist in his elaborate explanation ...[text shortened]... g of the words of Christ and His apostles.
That is all the time I can give this this morning.
C'mon jaywill. You can pretend that it's a "so-called gospel teaching of a secretive Atheist" all you want, the reality is that what you don't "buy into" is the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth. Calling it by a different name doesn't change the reality of what it is. You believe in a very different gospel than the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth.
And you didn't answer the question. Paul shows certain QUESTIONS were circulating around as rumors about his ministry. They well could have been raised by people who thought exactly as you do.
"Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?"
"Let us to evil that good may come ..." (?)
As I pointed out: According to the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth, in order to receive eternal life and live in the kingdom, one must make oneself righteous. The questions you quote from Paul are part and parcel of Paul's long elaborate string of rationalizations for not having to become righteous in order to receive eternal life and live in the kingdom. The rationalizations are a way to avoid taking responsibility for having to do so.
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11 Mar 19
1 edit
C'mon jaywill. You can pretend that it's a "so-called gospel teaching of a secretive Atheist" all you want,
Yes, that's right, because it bares repeating.
A secretive Atheist you must be to come up with a new way of concealing your true beliefs.
Christ said to Beware of false prophets..
the reality is that what you don't "buy into" is the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth.
It does bear repeating. Your "Jesus while He walked on earth" is code language for unbelief in God.
It is a supposedly clever way to state a naturalist anti-supernatualsim. That you actually think it sounds authoritative is an obsession with you.
Calling it by a different name doesn't change the reality of what it is. You believe in a very different gospel than the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth.
I am to beware of false prophets.
They appear as sheep but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
"Jesus while He walked the earth" is just a disguise for your fangs. When you write it I can almost imagine a ravenous wolf baring its fangs.
Others here have already detected your fraud.
I dont think discussion is of much value with you.
@sonship saidI am to beware of false prophets.
@ThinkOfOne
C'mon jaywill. You can pretend that it's a "so-called gospel teaching of a secretive Atheist" all you want,
Yes, that's right, because it bares repeating.
A secretive Atheist you must be to come up with a new way of concealing your true beliefs.
Christ said to Beware of false prophets..
[quote]
the reality is that what you do ...[text shortened]... Others here have already detected your fraud.
I dont think discussion is of much value with you.
If you understood what Jesus was saying, you'd know to beware of those who teach a gospel other than the one Jesus preached while He walked the Earth.
John 12
48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
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12 Mar 19
8 edits
If you understood what Jesus was saying, you'd know to beware of those who teach a gospel other than the one Jesus preached while He walked the Earth.
Discussion with such a deceiver is virtually fruitless.
I don't want to sound like all I have for you is ad hom statements.
But reasoned exegesis of the Bible's teaching with you is indeed virtually a fruitless matter.
What would most obviously expose the falsity of your expounding of the Bible is what you hold most under concealment. Ie. that there is no God to believe in at all.
I don't think you believe this at all. And we are suppose to expect that you can unveil the heart of Jesus Christ to the world ?
Your intention is a million miles away from that of Jesus.
At best, you probably regard Jesus as a deceived person. I think most of us have seen through you here.
John 12
48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
Anyone can copy passages.
The Devil quoted the Bible quite well to Jesus in the temptation in the wilderness.
And said to Him, If You are the Son of God, cast Yourself down; for it is written, He shall give charge to His angels concerning You, and on their hands they shall bear You us , lest You strike Your foot against a stone. (Matt, 4:6)
Psalm 91:11,12 is quoted by Satan the Devil quite well.
The application of the verse is entirely deceptive.
You quote. But it is with the deception as a false prophet.