Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
From what I gather, Rajk is only speaking against "faith alone" doctrine. If you reread the OP you'll see that he was answering KoP's request for a passage that indicates that something more than faith is required for "eternal life". Rajk fulfilled that request.

Seems that instead of actually addressing the import of the passage that Rajk cited, the " ...[text shortened]... able to do little more than reiterate that faith is required - much like in the scenario I gave.

No I replied to that one on this thread page 2.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Do you mean this one?

[b]And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and t ...[text shortened]... in another thread. I told him he stopped quoting too soon and then explained with other verses.

Here is my reply from page two.

You stopped one verse too soon:

But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

(Luke 10:29 KJV)

Jesus also said the following:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

(John 3:5, 14-18 KJV)

Let us see What the apostles say:

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

(James 2:10 KJV)

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

(1 John 1:8-10 NKJV)

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

(Romans 3:23-28 KJV)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ fromt he dead,

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

(1 Peter 1:3-5, 9 KJV)

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

(Romans 4:2-5 KJV)

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

(Roman 9:30-32 KJV)

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

(Romans 10:4 KJV)

We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.

(Galatians 2:15-16, 21 NKJV)

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

(Ephesians 2:8-9 NKJV)

See the man did not really do those things without sinning and attempted to justify himself. That is why Jesus had to be the One to do the works without sinning and pay the penalty for mankind's sin as the Savior of all men who will believe and put their faith in Him for salvation.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Here is my reply from page two.

You stopped one verse too soon:

But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

(Luke 10:29 KJV)

Jesus also said the following:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

And as Moses lifte ...[text shortened]... ankind's sin as the Savior of all men who will believe and put their faith in Him for salvation.

How does Luke 10:29 change what Christ said?

Originally posted by Rajk999
How does Luke 10:29 change what Christ said?

Luke 10:29 is what Christ said, my man. It is the belief and faith in what Christ does for us that gains us eternal life and not what good works we can do.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Originally posted by RJHinds
Here is my reply from page two.

You stopped one verse too soon:

But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

(Luke 10:29 KJV)

Jesus also said the following:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

And as Moses lifte ...[text shortened]... ankind's sin as the Savior of all men who will believe and put their faith in Him for salvation.

This is what I wrote:

From what I gather, Rajk is only speaking against "faith alone" doctrine. If you reread the OP you'll see that he was answering KoP's request for a passage that indicates that something more than faith is required for "eternal life". Rajk fulfilled that request.

Seems that instead of actually addressing the import of the passage that Rajk cited, the "faith alone" crowd has been unable to do little more than reiterate that faith is required - much like in the scenario I gave.

What you've written here basically reiterates that faith is required and supplies verses that you believe help support that idea - just as I wrote above.

However, it does not actually address the import of the following passage:

Luke 10
25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

When the lawyer asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life, what did Jesus tell him? Was Jesus mistaken? Was Jesus lying to the man?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Luke 10:29 is what Christ said, my man. It is the belief and faith in what Christ does for us that gains us eternal life and not what good works we can do.

[b]"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn th ...[text shortened]... ndemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." [/b]

What does Luke 10:29 have to do with that?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
This is what I wrote:
[quote]From what I gather, Rajk is only speaking against "faith alone" doctrine. If you reread the OP you'll see that he was answering KoP's request for a passage that indicates that something more than faith is required for "eternal life". Rajk fulfilled that request.

Seems that instead of actually addressing the import of the ...[text shortened]... o inherit eternal life, what did Jesus tell him? Was Jesus mistaken? Was Jesus lying to the man?

No. Jesus was telling the truth. However, nobody can fulfill the law, but Jesus, who was without sin. As Paul writes:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

(Romans 3:19-20 NKJV)

Originally posted by Rajk999
What does Luke 10:29 have to do with that?

It says the man wanted to justify himself. Why do you think he needed to justify himself?

Originally posted by RJHinds
No. Jesus was telling the truth. However, nobody can fulfill the law, but Jesus, who was without sin. As Paul writes:

[b]Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

(Romans 3:19-20 NKJV)[/b]

You keep ignoring the fact that Jesus said otherwise here:

Luke 10
25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

How about directly addressing what Jesus said above? Why would Jesus tell the man this if it weren't true?

Originally posted by RJHinds
It says the man wanted to justify himself. Why do you think he needed to justify himself?

You are a comedian.

The man was a Jew and Jews were not good neighbours to other nations since they considered Gentiles inferior. Hence what followed from Christ from verse 30, was the story of the Good Samaritan which contained Jews who were selfish and unloving [hence no eternal life for them], and a good person, the Samaritan who showed love and charity to an man he did not know - a good neighbour therefore eternal life for him.

The man wanted to justify himself [or make himself righteous], by showing that he was charitable to his own kind. The story of the Good Samaritan stopped him.

Christ was clear :
- love and charity is one of the key elements in attaining eternal life.
- faith [which the priest and Levite surely would claim to have] was not enough. Christ said the man was lacking something.
- The story cannot be twisted. Christ said :
- GO AND DO THOU LIKEWISE
- DO THIS AND THOU SHALL LIVE.

Anyway, its clear that you cannot stomach the words of Christ. So you have chosen like so many Christians to change Christ's teachings into some kind of watered down doctrine that means nothing.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are a comedian.

The man was a Jew and Jews were not good neighbours to other nations since they considered Gentiles inferior. Hence what followed from Christ from verse 30, was the story of the Good Samaritan which contained Jews who were selfish and unloving [hence no eternal life for them], and a good person, the Samaritan who showed love and char ...[text shortened]... istians to change Christ's teachings into some kind of watered down doctrine that means nothing.

I am not trying to be funny here. I am trying to provide you with the true information about the gospel of Christ.

I have not chosen to change any of Christ's teachings. However, you have chosen to ignore some of Christ's teachings and those of the spostles and twist others beyond their intentions.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am not trying to be funny here. I am trying to provide you with the true information about the gospel of Christ.

I have not chosen to change any of Christ's teachings. However, you have chosen to ignore some of Christ's teachings and those of the spostles and twist others beyond their intentions.

Your socalled true information does not conform to what Christ said, and you continue to ignore what Christ said [in the opening post], and in the story about the Good Samaritan which illustrates the point Christ made.

The story gives an example of TWO FAITHFUL who failed to do good works. According to Christ they are lacking something. The story also shows that someone who had no faith and did good works, demonstrated their faith BY THEIR GOOD WORKS. The Samaritan had the works written in his heart. His heart was with God. The priest and the Levite had 'faith' with their mouth.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Your socalled true information does not conform to what Christ said, and you continue to ignore what Christ said [in the opening post], and in the story about the Good Samaritan which illustrates the point Christ made.

The story gives an example of TWO FAITHFUL who failed to do good works. According to Christ they are lacking something. The story also sho ...[text shortened]... en in his heart. His heart was with God. The priest and the Levite had 'faith' with their mouth.

There is no point in arguing this. Just don't forget to have faith in Christ Jesus and you can do your good works to your heart's content.

Originally posted by RJHinds
There is no point in arguing this. Just don't forget to have faith in Christ Jesus and you can do your good works to your heart's content.

Why do you continue to refuse to directly address what Jesus said here:
Luke 10
25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

How about directly addressing what Jesus said above? Why would Jesus tell the man this if it weren't true?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Why do you continue to refuse to directly address what Jesus said here:
Luke 10
25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL ...[text shortened]... directly addressing what Jesus said above? Why would Jesus tell the man this if it weren't true?

Jesus always told the truth as far as I know. I believe Jusus told the man the truth here to convict him of his sin, but the man immediately tried to justify himself by asking another question.