Prayer for the pope and the church

Originally posted by Darfius
Show me my anti-science tirades. Even one. If you're referring to Darwinism, that isn't science, that's an outdated agenda.

Darfius, please don't take the bait.

Did i here today that he had his last rights done?.. what the hell does he have to worry about.. hmmm....

Originally posted by Nemesio
I disagree with both Kirk and the Doctor.

I am willling to place a life-long wager, and to will it recursively to my next of kin.

This offer does not extend to all parties in this thread, of course.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
because he's an anti-Catholic bigot, perhaps

As a lapsed Catholic, I'll join in the prayer for a new leader of the Church, and a peaceful passing for one who served through tumultous times.

Acknowledging Christ is the head of the church hardly makes him an anti-Catholic bigot. Those type of statements are totally uncalled for, you would be wise to think before spewing foolishness and expecting others to respect your opinions.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Darfius, please don't take the bait.

I find it astounding that you would urge Darfius not 'to take the bait' as
he is explicitly not going to pray for the Holy Father because he believes
that the RCC is a perversion of Christianity and leads people to hell, not
to mention all of the incorrect and slanderous representations of the RCC
that he is giving.

I find it more astounding that, as I defend the notion that one should
pray for the leader of any church and, in this specific case my defense
of the Pontiff, that you would continue your tirade against me.

What is wrong tonight, Ivanhoe? Seriously?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Una
Acknowledging Christ is the head of the church hardly makes him an anti-Catholic bigot.

Explicitly stating that the Roman Catholic Church does not consider Christ the head of the
Church but the Pope (an utter absurdity!) is what makes him a bigot.

Refusing to pray for wisdom and the guidance of the Holy Spirit for the leader of his
brothers and sisters in Christ is what makes him a bigot.

Continuing to spew demonstrable false lies about the Roman Catholic Church is what
makes him a bigot.

Nemesio

any bets when hes gunna bite it?.... i say in the next week... 10-1

Originally posted by xxxenophobe
any bets when hes gunna bite it?.... i say in the next week... 10-1

Ivanhoe? No, he's a fighter. He came back after his last explosion. I'm sure he'll recover from this one as well. He just needs a little break to cool off.

Originally posted by Una
Acknowledging Christ is the head of the church hardly makes him an anti-Catholic bigot.

Positive affirmations of anything from Darfius are rare gems.

He disputed several statements of mine a few days ago because he deemed the source Catholic, and then went on a tirade against the Pope. We were discussing his view of the Trinity (which I called a gross oversimplication). My source, that he called erroneous because Catholic, was the Westminster Confession of Faith!

Such prejudgment, even when not obviously wrong and confused, is the very nature of bigotry. As Nemesio pointed out, refusing to pray for the leader of a church is another clear example.

I rarely call people by such names, but with Darfius there is a clear and consistent pattern of hypocrisy, bigotry, and arrogance.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Originally posted by Una
[b]Acknowledging Christ is the head of the church hardly makes him an anti-Catholic bigot.

Explicitly stating that the Roman Catholic Church does not consider Christ the head of the
Church but the Pope (an utter absurdity!) is what makes him a bigot.

Refusing to pray for wisdom and the guidance of the Holy Spirit ...[text shortened]... w demonstrable false lies about the Roman Catholic Church is what
makes him a bigot.

Nemesio[/b]

Authority. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Bible and tradition as interpreted by the Church are the final seat of authority in religion. Jesus condemned tradition as a rule for religious authority and exalted the Word of God: “The Pharisees and Scribes asked him, ‘Why do not thy disciples walk according to the tradition of the ancients...?’ But answering he said to them, ‘...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrine the precepts of men. For letting go the commandment of God, you hold fast the tradition of men.... Well do you nullify the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.... You make void the commandment of God by your tradition’” (Mk. 7:5-13 DB).

Roman Catholic teaching on authority can be seen in the following documents. The Council of Trent (4th sess., 1546) stated, “Seeing clearly that this truth and discipline are contained in the written books, and the unwritten traditions.” Cf. The Dogmatic Decrees of the Vatican Council (3rd sess., 1870), chap. 2, par. 3; the Creed of Pope Pius IV

As you can see, the final authority of the Roman Catholic Church is not Christ but rather "the Bible and tradition as interpreted by the Church"

Read the phrase carefully..."the Bible and traditons as interpreted" If a passage or tradition is interpreted incorrectly how can that be a leading of the Holy Spirit. No, the whole point here is he a Catholic bigot because he would not pray for a system which is contrary to biblical truths. I say he is not.

Originally posted by Una
Roman Catholic teaching on authority can be seen in the following documents. The Council of Trent (4th sess., 1546) stated, “Seeing clearly that this truth and discipline are contained in the written books, and the unwritten traditions.” Cf. The Dogmatic Decrees of the Vatican Council (3rd sess., 1870), chap. 2, par. 3; the Creed of Pope Pius IV

More uncited nonsense. The Council of Trent? From the 16th century? Great source.
It's been outdated since the First Vatican Council in the late 19th century. Then you
cite statements from the First Vatican Council which has been outdated since the 1960s.
Another great source, representative of little which the Church stands for today.

Furthermore, your claim that your 'branch' of Christianity relies on 'no tradition' (the so-
called 'Sola Scriptura' branch) is utter nonsense. You believe in the Trinity, right? Well
that dogma is part of Tradition, not the Bible. You believe in the '66' books of the Bible,
right? More Tradition (the canon was formed in the 4th century and then Protestants
further amended it in the 16th century). You've got Tradition, it's just different from
Ivanhoe's.

As you can see, the final authority of the Roman Catholic Church is not Christ but rather "the Bible and tradition as interpreted by the Church"

Baloney. The Roman Church does it's best to interpret what it believes to be the message
of Christ through the Bible and Tradition. Just like you try to do the best you can to
interpret the message of Christ in the Bible and Tradition. You and the RCC disagree, and
yet the RCC prays for your spiritual leaders. At least in this capacity, the RCC is not
hypocritical.

Read the phrase carefully..."the Bible and traditons as interpreted" If a passage or tradition is interpreted incorrectly how can that be a leading of the Holy Spirit. No, the whole point here is he a Catholic bigot because he would not pray for a system which is contrary to biblical truths. I say he is not.

This is all the more reason to pray that the next leader be wise and filled with
the Holy Spirit. If you feel that wisdom is lacking or that the Holy Spirit is being ignored,
then what better time is there to pray?!?

And, yes, he is a bigot because he (and it seems you) promotes a vision of the RCC
which is in no relation to reality.

I'm the first to criticize the Church (ask Ivanhoe), but I won't lie about it like Darfius.
Criticism is healthy, insults and slander is bigotry.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Ahem. Desmond Tutu is a filthy Anglican.

(THAT'S A JOKE!)

Seriously, he is in the wrong denomination to be eligible. The Book of Common Prayer
(the Anglican Prayerbook) still has a line about the Romish Popery or some such thing.

Nemesio

My bad!

Originally posted by Nemesio
Originally posted by Una
[b]Roman Catholic teaching on authority can be seen in the following documents. The Council of Trent (4th sess., 1546) stated, “Seeing clearly that this truth and discipline are contained in the written books, and the unwritten traditions.” Cf. The Dogmatic Decrees of the Vatican Council (3rd sess., 1870), chap. 2, par. 3; th ...[text shortened]... 't lie about it like Darfius.
Criticism is healthy, insults and slander is bigotry.

Nemesio

How can infallible doctrine become outdated, Nemesio?

Originally posted by Darfius
How can infallible doctrine become outdated, Nemesio?

Once again, your ignorance of the Roman Catholic Church betrays itself.

The 'infallibility doctrine' to which you refer has only formally existed for
a little over 100 years and only pertains to matters of faith which are
executed ex cathedra. If I am not mistaken, the Pope has exercised
this power on only a handful of occasions, and not in reference to either of
the Councils cited above.

Take a peak at this article and learn a little bit about what the Church
really thinks about infaillibility rather than the bigotted sources whence
you get your information.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Once again, your ignorance of the Roman Catholic Church betrays itself.

The 'infallibility doctrine' to which you refer has only formally existed for
a little over 100 years and only pertains to matters of faith which are
executed ex cathedra. If I am not mistaken, the Pope has exercised
this power on only a handful of occasions, and not in ...[text shortened]... urces whence
you get your information.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm

Nemesio

You know why you shouldn't assume, Nemesio?

Contrary to your portayal of me, I'm not some wide-eyed, green ignoramus who gets my opinions from a televangelist. I am aware of exactly what Politically Correct statements the RCC has made about infalliblity.

I just find it odd that the Holy Spirit is only powerful enough to lead the "Vicar of Christ" correctly some of the time. Though since the RCC has been attempting to lessen Christ's omnipotence since it began, I'm hardly surprised.

Apparently the Lord's finished work on the cross wasn't enough. You need to pray to Mary for help, do more good works than bad (sound familiar?), pray to other saints for help, Hail Mary, be a member of the RCC, and STILL go to purgatory when you die.

According to Catholics, most people are going to Heaven anyway, Jesus just opened an express lane.