1. SubscriberProper Knob
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    26 Oct '12 08:37
    A continuation of another thread.

    So how do you account for prayer not working in this instance?

    Take 1 John 5:14-15 -

    14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.



    This passage indicates that God heard the prayers asking for the safe return of this woman yet tragically she didn't return. So if God heard the prayers and yet they weren't answered what do you put that down to?
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    26 Oct '12 09:08
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    A continuation of another thread.

    So how do you account for prayer not working in this instance?

    Take 1 John 5:14-15 -

    [quote]14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have ask ...[text shortened]... eturn. So if God heard the prayers and yet they weren't answered what do you put that down to?
    Has it occurred to you that she might have been dead already?
  3. SubscriberProper Knob
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    26 Oct '12 09:14
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Has it occurred to you that she might have been dead already?
    She may have been.

    The general question still stands though, how do you reconcile God answering some prayers and not answering others?
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    26 Oct '12 09:23
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    She may have been.

    The general question still stands though, how do you reconcile God answering some prayers and not answering others?
    As the verse states, its according to his will.
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    26 Oct '12 09:381 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    As the verse states, its according to his will.
    Essentially it says God listens to your prayers, then goes and does whatever he likes. If your prayer happens to match what he chooses to do, then your prayer is considered 'answered'.
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
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    26 Oct '12 09:39
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    A continuation of another thread.

    So how do you account for prayer not working in this instance?

    Take 1 John 5:14-15 -

    [quote]14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have ask ...[text shortened]... eturn. So if God heard the prayers and yet they weren't answered what do you put that down to?
    I believe God answers our prayers just as the scripture you quoted says, I do not
    always know what God's will is. God allows us to do things here we should not,
    there would be no need to command anyone to follow if we all just did what God
    wanted. So He is for His reasons letting our lives play out as we want both for the
    good and the bad, I put that down as we live in a fallen world and what occured
    is just our fallen nature being revealed for what it is, you don't see a loving kind
    person doing that.
    Kelly
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    26 Oct '12 09:55
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Essentially it says God listens to your prayers, then goes and does whatever he likes. If your prayer happens to match what he chooses to do, then your prayer is considered 'answered'.
    not quite,
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    26 Oct '12 10:05
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I believe God answers our prayers just as the scripture you quoted says, I do not
    always know what God's will is. God allows us to do things here we should not,
    there would be no need to command anyone to follow if we all just did what God
    wanted. So He is for His reasons letting our lives play out as we want both for the
    good and the bad, I put that do ...[text shortened]... n nature being revealed for what it is, you don't see a loving kind
    person doing that.
    Kelly
    " I do not always know what God's will is."

    " if we all just did what God wanted."

    So is the sin in not knowing what God's will is, or not doing what God want's i.e the sin of ignorance or disobedience?
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    26 Oct '12 10:261 edit
    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    " I do not always know what God's will is."

    " if we all just did what God wanted."

    So is the sin in not knowing what God's will is, or not doing what God want's i.e the sin of ignorance or disobedience?
    Sin is going against what you know is right. You don't have to know God's will on
    anything to sin, you can know you should keep your word be honest, and
    whatever standard you hold others to and when you go against that you are sinning
    against your own enlightenment. I don't know why things occur the way they do,
    or why God allows something things to happen the way they do, that does not
    mean that I get to break the laws I am aware of, either God's or my own.
    Kelly
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Oct '12 10:291 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Sin is going against what you know is right. You don't have to know God's will on anything to sin, you can know you should keep your word be honest, and whatever standard you hold others to and when you go against that you are sinning against your own enlightenment.
    So a sexual relationship, without deceit or coercion, without being married, is OK, i.e. not "sin"?
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    26 Oct '12 10:41
    Originally posted by FMF
    So a sexual relationship, without deceit or coercion, without being married, is OK, i.e. not "sin"?
    I didn't say that.
    Kelly
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Oct '12 10:46
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I didn't say that.
    Kelly
    It's a question.

    What you said was: "Sin is going against what you know is right. You don't have to know God's will on anything to sin, you can know you should keep your word be honest, and whatever standard you hold others to and when you go against that you are sinning against your own enlightenment."

    So as long as you are honest and treat others by the same standard as you hold them to, you don't have to know God's will on anything to sin, right?
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    26 Oct '12 10:55
    Originally posted by FMF
    It's a question.

    What you said was:[b] "Sin is going against what you know is right. You don't have to know God's will on anything to sin, you can know you should keep your word be honest, and whatever standard you hold others to and when you go against that you are sinning against your own enlightenment."


    So as long as you are honest and treat others ...[text shortened]... tandard as you hold them to, you don't have to know God's will on anything to sin, right?[/b]
    I pointed out that you can sin against your own rules/laws whatever you want to
    call them. You are still subject to God, it is no different than driving down the
    road going 70 mph and the police giving you a ticket for speeding in a 55 zone,
    you not knowing the speed limit does not excuse you from the law.
    Kelly
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Oct '12 11:00
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I pointed out that you can sin against your own rules/laws whatever you want to
    call them. You are still subject to God, it is no different than driving down the
    road going 70 mph and the police giving you a ticket for speeding in a 55 zone,
    you not knowing the speed limit does not excuse you from the law.
    Kelly
    Well that's a bit odd. Here's the exchange:

    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    So is the sin in not knowing what God's will is, or not doing what God want's i.e the sin of ignorance or disobedience?

    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Sin is going against what you know is right. You don't have to know God's will on anything to sin, you can know you should keep your word be honest, and whatever standard you hold others to and when you go against that you are sinning against your own enlightenment.

    But when pressed on this you now say that you DO have to know God's will to sin?
  15. SubscriberProper Knob
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    26 Oct '12 11:29
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    As the verse states, its according to his will.
    Scenario for you -

    A person goes into theatre for life saving surgery, the family who are Christians pray to God that their loved one survives. Unfortunately their loved one doesn't make it.

    In the above example are you saying that God hears this families prayers yet decides that this person surviving the operation is not part of his will and lets the person die? If surviving the operation was part of his will then could he have saved this person?
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