Originally posted by sonshipThat is the biggest load of bunkum I have ever had the misfortune to come across in these forums.
Prayreading combines reading of the Bible with praying. It can be personalized as much as you need.
Prayreading can ALSO [and this is important] be the basis of an entire Christian meeting. Without need for a "Reverend" or an official "Pastor" to of necessity deliver a speech, how about getting some people together in your living room, and together [b] ...[text shortened]... es and functions.
Prayreading corporately will revolutionize the way of Christian meetings.
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace--as in all the congregations of the Lord's people. 1 Corinthians 14:33
What will members of the public think of you crazees all huddled over your Bibles with everyone speaking, everyone praising, everyone calling out to God? They will go away and think my goodness those people are nuts. Where is the structure? Where is the organisation? Where is the effort to teach something tangible and practical? its nowhere!!! because you are advocating a completely airy fairy pie in the sky approach. You are treating the word of God like some spirit medium treats a crystal ball. Its incredulous that a faith should be so shallow that it needs to resort to such gimmickry.
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
That is the biggest load of bunkum I have ever had the misfortune to come across in these forums.
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace--as in all the congregations of the Lord's people. 1 Corinthians 14:33
What will members of the public think of you crazees all huddled over your Bibles with everyone speaking, everyone praising, every ...[text shortened]... l. Its incredulous that a faith should be so shallow that it needs to resort to such gimmickry.
That is the biggest load of bunkum I have ever had the misfortune to come across in these forums.
No it isn't. A ministry which is really of God gives people a WAY to get into the matters that it teaches and preaches.
Prayreading is being recovered by God's people. And I absolutely believe that it is a move of the Holy Spirit. It is better than babbling in an unknown tongue. And I mean no offense to Pentacostals.
Prayreading is something young and old can do and do together. Families of dads and moms and their kids can learn to Prayread. They do not have to wait until the man or the woman with the funny collar comes by to help them.
Prayreading puts a lot of professional eloquent speakers out of a job. But it is no damage to the Christian public. Rather some of these so-called clergyman ought to take the Lead and teach the saints under their care to PRAY - READ.
The sheep are staggering, hungry, fainting. Prayreading, I believe, is God suppying a way for the multitudes to obtain spiritual nourishment, sustenance, guidance.
I am not sure I can expect a Jehovah's Witness to understand this. But I'll give it a try.
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace--as in all the congregations of the Lord's people. 1 Corinthians 14:33
Why ... why would you be SO QUICK to ASSUME that such a meeting will only be "disorder" ?
You have not faith in the Holy Spirit. You have no faith in Christ as the HEAD of His Body. You are so cock sure that if a number of seeking people PRAYREAD some passages from the Bible, there can only be anarchy.
How about "anarchy in the Holy Spirit" ? How about the balance of form and freedomg - You take a chapter of say, Ephesians. You admit that things are there which are over your head. You need NO PERMISSION to be able to Read and Pray, Pray and Read a chapter from the book of Ephesians.
If you do not understand something, you can STILL give thanks and praise. Our lives can be changed by the word of God even when our comprehension is lacking somewhat.
No Robbie, prayreading is being recovered. And some of us see God graciously moving in the world to equip His people with a way and a means to be nourished up on the words of the faith.
I want to Prayread right now 1 Timothy 4:6 .
" If you lay these things before the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, BEING NOURISHED UP ... with the words of the faith and of the good teaching which you have closely followed."
Nourished up .... not just TAUGHT up.
"Nourished up, fed, provided spiritual food for the hungry spirit and heart.
It is not all teaching. It is not all the puffing up of knowledge.
it is the building up in faith and in love.
"Nourished up with the WORDS ..." says the Apostle Paul. What I am sharing here is a practical way for God's people to be nourished up with the words of the faith.
You jump to the conclusion that there is disorder because you cannot boss everyone one in the living room around as to what they need to "learn" next from you JW catechesm.
There is a time for teaching.
I do not say there is no time anymore for teaching.
I teach much.
But people's lives can be greatly blessed by masticating in reading and prayer the word of God. And they do not have to have a teacher there all the time. Quite on their own they can prayread for being nourished up on the words of the faith.
And they can come together to be nourished up together. And quite lovely order occurs by the direct heading up of the Holy Spirit.
What will members of the public think of you crazees all huddled over your Bibles with everyone speaking, everyone praising, everyone calling out to God?
Prayreading does not have to always be public.
And some will see the enjoyment and may want to join. It is easy for anyone to participate. And we all have a spirit which can be regenerated by Jesus Christ and can pray.
And we can read. And we can combine the two - prayreading to be nourished up on the words of the faith even together.
Off privately in the solitude of you bedroom also, you may prayread. More intimate, more personalized petition and prayer can be made in privacy.
You may not want to pray certain things in public. You may not want to be heard confessing certain things which are no one else's business.
Why do you jump to a conclusion to quickly find out how much "wrong" you can locate and call prayreading the thing you have called it ?
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999
My definition of obnoxious fits you perfectly. You post in these discussions without contributing to the content and without adding value. Make a solid contribution instead of brown-nosing.
Why my language is harsh is not as important as why you fail to see that there are posters who continue to attack me and attempt to derail my threads and posts. Recen ...[text shortened]... ecause they do not like the teachings of Jesus Christ .. and neither do you as far as I can see.
Here in this thread he insists that my comment requires clarification when it can be seen that none is required. These are all tactics to change the focus of the topic and they do this simply because they do not like the teachings of Jesus Christ .. and neither do you as far as I can see.
The man is asking you to clarify not brush him off. Good communication is a mutual understanding of one another. If KJ feels he does not understand you, you might want to explain yourself or answer the question so he feels he does understand you. You saying something needs no explanation makes my point about you being wise in your own eyes. Obviously it is up to you what you do, but I see no meaningful conversations taking place where you are concerned, not really. You just talk down to people.
Edit: Maybe you want to change your MO?
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipI wonder if what you mean by prayer-reading is really reading in an undertone, that is reflectively?
You jump to the conclusion that there is disorder because you cannot boss everyone one in the living room around as to what they need to "learn" next from you JW catechesm.
There is a time for teaching.
I do not say there is no time anymore for teaching.
I teach much.
But people's lives can be greatly blessed by masticating in reading and prayer t ...[text shortened]... kly find out how much "wrong" you can locate and call prayreading the thing you have called it ?
This book of the Law should not depart from your mouth, and you must read it in an undertone* day and night, in order to observe carefully all that is written in it for then your way will be successful and then you will act wisely. - Joshua 1:8 - NWT.
Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, Joshua 1:8 NIV etc
This is how we are counselled to approach the word of God, reading it contemplatively, mediating on it so that it percolates into our inner being and makes itself manifest in our personality and actions. Why? so that we can act wisely. Is this what you are advocating?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThankyou for finally giving some support for the practice of prayreading. Its funny that you didn't do so before saying it was worthless discussion I was offering.
I wonder if what you mean by prayer-reading is really reading in an undertone, that is reflectively?
This book of the Law should not depart from your mouth, and you must read it in an undertone* day and night, in order to observe carefully all that is written in it for then your way will be successful and then you will act wisely. - Joshua 1:8 - ...[text shortened]... n our personality and actions. Why? so that we can act wisely. Is this what you are advocating?
Better late than never.
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
This is how we are counselled to approach the word of God, reading it contemplatively, mediating on it so that it percolates into our inner being and makes itself manifest in our personality and actions. Why? so that we can act wisely. Is this what you are advocating?
The verses you offered were excellent support for prayreading the word of God.
Did I ever say NOT to contemplate ?
Did I ever suggest "Do this but DON'T muse on the word" ?
Of course not.
Musing, contemplation, meditating AND Praying and Reading. How about ?
Further I go. An excellent practice to get few Christians together and prayread a chapter or a passage for a number of minutes. And THEN, afterwards fellowship what was personally enlightening and instructing in what they read and prayed.
Then the musing and the contemplating goes along with the speaking to build up one another's faith.
There was not reason for you to say this was the biggest, whatever you said, that you ever heard. There was no reason for that. You QUICKLY realized there was much biblical support for detailed handling of the word of God for digestion, meditation, etc.
Did I say, Prayread but do not meditate ?
Did I create such a dichotomy - "Prayreading is VERSES contemplating" ?
This is how we are counselled to approach the word of God, reading it contemplatively, mediating on it so that it percolates into our inner being and makes itself manifest in our personality and actions. Why? so that we can act wisely. Is this what you are advocating?
In care anyone does not understand -
Prayreading is absolutely for changing the way one LIVES - being more calibrated towards the Triune God.
Of course, a vain practice, not effecting the way one lives, thinks, talks, is not be advocated by my talk on Prayreading. Far from it.
Nourished up on the words of the faith is for the effecting of one's LIVING.
We will examine more about musing and meditating shortly.
2 edits
Originally posted by sonshipIt was the terminology and explanation that was proffered. I was thinking this is some hoodoo reading in tongues type of gimmickry. Lucky for us we were able to clarify what you meant.
Thankyou for finally giving some support for the practice of [b]prayreading. Its funny that you didn't do so before saying it was worthless discussion I was offering.
Better late than never.[/b]
Originally posted by Rajk999You after thinking about it, how is it you still call people like those you are describing as
I pity you and your lack of understanding.
I condemn those pastors and leaders who are confessed crooks and shysters or who have been caught redhanded committing acts of depraved evil eg stealing money from the churches, having sex with church members and minors, claiming to have gifts of the HS etc etc. There are many such cases out there and this is pu ...[text shortened]... ternal life.
I have said this to you dozens of times but your head cannot seem to process it.
Christian? Are they in your book doing what God requires?
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayFor me a Christian is a professed follower of the Christian religion. Whether or not a person is actually following Christ will be determined by Christ at the appropriate time. I dont know these things.
You after thinking about it, how is it you still call people like those you are describing as
Christian? Are they in your book doing what God requires?
Your definition means judging people because you define Christian as someone who follows Christ. But you dont know that for sure.. only God/Christ knows these things.
In the case of confessed crooked pastors or those who have been caught it is easy to determine and judge for yourself what they have done, and what type they are likely to be... but again Christ will judge.
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhenever you start off a religion or religious group with the wrong foundation it is doomed to go nowhere.
That is the biggest load of bunkum I have ever had the misfortune to come across in these forums.
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace--as in all the congregations of the Lord's people. 1 Corinthians 14:33
What will members of the public think of you crazees all huddled over your Bibles with everyone speaking, everyone praising, every ...[text shortened]... l. Its incredulous that a faith should be so shallow that it needs to resort to such gimmickry.
Since I have known Jaywill/Sonship/GSwin, he has constantly preached that DEAD FAITH is fine as the person with this dead faith still enters into the Kingdom of God a statement strongly condemned by Christ. He does not preach the LIVING FAITH, which is preached by Jesus and the Apostles.
The right foundation for all faith is the teachings and commandments of Jesus.
Living faith is based on this firm foundation, on the rock that is Christ.
Dead faith neglects this foundation and is based on mouth worship, talk, and blah blah blah gibberish, and like the man who build his house on the sand, it will surely fall.
His entire doctrine carries the follower nowhere and it is a deadend doctrine destined for eternal damnation.
2 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999in the book of Acts we see people who were the disciples were called Christians first at
For me a Christian is a professed follower of the Christian religion. Whether or not a person is actually following Christ will be determined by Christ at the appropriate time. I dont know these things.
Your definition means judging people because you define Christian as someone who follows Christ. But you dont know that for sure.. only God/Christ know ...[text shortened]... ourself what they have done, and what type they are likely to be... but again Christ will judge.
Antioch. The word Christian around the world has a meaning of those who claim to follow
Jesus Christ, but with how you are defining it, it is only what people want to call
themselves. The movement is associated with Jesus Christ it is used to again describe
Jesus' followers, so you smear Christ by suggesting those not following Jesus can lay
claim to that name just because they want too.
So when you apply your rants against Christians you also smear those that are both
following Christ and Christ since Christian is associated with His followers.
Granted you and I agree that Christ will reveal those who were indeed His in this life time.
That however should not mean we should insult Him here by making the claims of those
who through lies make the claim to be a follower of His. They hide their sinful nature that
the name Christian should be used to describe themselves when they do this.
We should declare without a doubt they are not Christians though they claim to be, and
not smear Jesus by allowing them to use that name as something that they really are.