27 May 14
3 edits
Rom 8:30
Eph 1:11
I am currently one who holds to the absolute authority and sovereignty of God, meaning that I chose to accept the scriptures relating to predestination at face value. Many Christians here won't agree with this view, some extremely so as predestination seems to imply the exclusion of free will.
I also hold to the strategy that in order to understand the truth of a matter of core doctrine one has to see that truth upheld throughout the bible. For example I reject the trinity fundamentally because the notion of three distinct people/personalities/persons/entities in one god is not sustained through the whole bible - you will have seen me write many times: "hear oh Israel The Lord your god is one" for example.
Now with predestination, let's consider Noak's ark. God was very explicit with the dimensions of the ark, but why was it so small when there was many more people being preached to by Noah than could possibly fit within it? Is this an early example of predestination?
Thoughts and opinions.
27 May 14
Originally posted by divegeesterI accept the absolute authority and sovereignty of God too, which pretty
Rom 8:30
Eph 1:11
I am currently one who holds to the absolute authority and sovereignty of God, meaning that I chose to accept the scriptures relating to predestination at face value. Many Christians here won't agree with this view, some extremely so as predestination seems to imply the exclusion of free will.
I also hold to the strategy that in ...[text shortened]... ld possibly fit within it? Is this an early example of predestination?
Thoughts and opinions.
much means I don't worry about some of the little details we seem to fight
over here. Such as predestination, if God gives us choice than we have a
choice, does that mean we lose it if God can see the beginning and the end
at the same time? If there is an issue there, I am willing to let God work
it out it is His problem not mine.
With respect to the Trinity I believe it, but it too is something I don't really
care to debate. Reason being, God is God no matter what I think about Him
He will be what He is if I understand Him or not.
The Ark I believe in, take that for what its worth.
Kelly
Originally posted by divegeester"God was very explicit with the dimensions of the ark..." Of course He was; if you were Omniscient God you'd be precise too. His plan is perfect. "predestination": He knew from eternity past who would believe in Christ for their eternal salvation and who wouldn't; those God foreknew He predestined to share the security and happiness of personal relationship with Him.
Rom 8:30
Eph 1:11
I am currently one who holds to the absolute authority and sovereignty of God, meaning that I chose to accept the scriptures relating to predestination at face value. Many Christians here won't agree with this view, some extremely so as predestination seems to imply the exclusion of free will.
I also hold to the strategy that in ...[text shortened]... ld possibly fit within it? Is this an early example of predestination?
Thoughts and opinions.
27 May 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWhy do you think the ark was only big enough for a few people and yet Noah would gave been preaching to thousands - why would god make him do that?
"God was very explicit with the dimensions of the ark..." Of course He was; if you were Omniscient God you'd be precise too. His plan is perfect. "predestination": He knew from eternity past who would believe in Christ for their eternal salvation and who wouldn't; those God foreknew He predestined to share the security and happiness of personal relationship with Him.
27 May 14
Originally posted by divegeesterWell, Christians may quibble the use of the word "genocide" ~ so replace it with mass murder or indiscriminate mass executions, if you want ~ but don't the calculated dimensions of the ark, supposedly determined by God [in the folk story you're talking about], strongly suggest that the killing of all humans, aside from Noah's family, was a calculated genocide with a calculated purpose?
Why do you think the ark was only big enough for a few people and yet Noah would gave been preaching to thousands - why would god make him do that?
27 May 14
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFGod and genocide, I think is a worthless conversation since everyone's
Well, Christians may quibble the use of the word "genocide" ~ so replace it with mass murder or indiscriminate mass executions, if you want ~ but don't the calculated dimensions of the ark, supposedly determined by God [in the folk story you're talking about], strongly suggest that the killing of all humans, aside from Noah's family, was a calculated genocide with a calculated purpose?
death and I do mean everyone's death comes down to God. If God does it
one at a time, or in mass it is still God who sets up universe and
all the laws within it.
Kelly
27 May 14
Originally posted by KellyJayWere the people deliberately killed by God using the flood or not?
God and genocide, I think is a worthless conversation since everyone's
death and I do mean everyone's death comes down to God. If God does it
one at a time, or in mass it is still God who sets up universe and
all the laws within it.
Kelly
Can you not equally claim "everyone's death [came] down to God" in Rwanda [for example] and therefore it is a "worthless conversation" to talk of "genocide"?
Originally posted by FMFIt says so in the bible, it's very clear and there is no denying it. however any one of those people listening to Noah could have stepped onto the boat. They didn't need to do any good works, they didn't need to worry about being thrown off because they had the wrong doctrine or language and it was completely free. All they had to do was walk on the boat. But they all chose not to.
Were the people deliberately killed by God using the flood?
27 May 14
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterWhy should they have listened to Noah?
It says so in the bible, it's very clear and there is no denying it. however any one of those people listening to Noah could have stepped onto the boat. They didn't need to do any good works, they didn't need to worry about being thrown off because they had the wrong doctrine or language and it was completely free. All they had to do was walk on the boat. But they all chose not to.
Was that the best and fairest method of communication your God figure could use to warn people of his planned genocide?
27 May 14
Originally posted by divegeesterSure. But did that fact have your God figure ~ as portrayed in the mythology ~ stumped? The channel of communication that He used resulted in one man and his family surviving and the rest of humanity being killed/murdered? It sounds like the work of an Iron Age storyteller. It does not strike me as being a case of 'divinity in action' at all ~ more like the exploits of a man-made "baddie" character, except his followers think he's the opposite of a "baddie'.
Well to be fair to god, the internet hadn't been invented. 😛
27 May 14
Originally posted by FMFI'm more interested in the predestination element of this debate.
Sure. But did that fact have your God figure ~ as portrayed in the mythology ~ stumped? The channel of communication that He used resulted in one man and his family surviving and the rest of humanity being killed/murdered? It sounds like the work of an Iron Age storyteller. It does not strike me as being a case of 'divinity in action' at all ~ more like the expl ...[text shortened]... ts of a man-made "baddie" character, except his followers think he's the opposite of a "baddie'.
I've never hidden from the fact that as well as gods love there is judgement. I don't get frazzled by people calling "my god" a genocidal maniac or the like; it's his reputation to defend not mine, he can explain it when the time comes.