Predestination and Noah's ark

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
People keep talking about Noah preaching to the lost. Reading Genesis, I see absolutely no mention of Noah preaching whatsoever.

It is quite clear from the story that God does not intend to save any human outside the family of Noah. There never is a chance to repent.

If someone can find the preaching part in some other biblical passage, then let ...[text shortened]... and the flooding begins. Nary a mention of any intercession of any kind on behalf of the damned.

The apostle Peter tells us that Noah was a preacher of righteousness. Therefore, it is a logical asumption that he must have preached to those wicked people at some point during his 600 years before the flood. Certainly people would have inquired why he was building such a large boat.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

(2 Peter 2:4-5 NASB)

Also Jesus said the following:

For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

(Matthew 24:37-39 NASB)

What was it they did not understand? Maybe they did not understand that judgment was coming upon them just like it will be at the coming of Christ when He returns with power and great glory. Surely preachers have been warning of the coming of the Lord in judgment long before it will occur just like Noah, the preacher of righteousness, must have done in his time.

Originally posted by FMF
Noah's family aside, why were innocent humans being punished ~ executed ~ in this way? If you can't answer, then what is the moral of the story?

This life isn't where the final judgment is to take place. As much as I hate
death it is a protection of sorts for us too in my opinion. Unlike spiritual
beings who are what they are and will remain so forever, what we are to
become has yet to be seen. Simply because we leave this life it is not the
end. You also know that sin was passed down from Adam, I'd also point out
that when God deals with nations the people will suffer due the sins of the
leadership. It doesn't mean that the people are guilty of their leaders sins,
but they are a part of each leaders universe. The sins of the world was
great in God's eyes, He acted as He saw fit.
Kelly

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
People keep talking about Noah preaching to the lost. Reading Genesis, I see absolutely no mention of Noah preaching whatsoever.

It is quite clear from the story that God does not intend to save any human outside the family of Noah. There never is a chance to repent.

If someone can find the preaching part in some other biblical passage, then let ...[text shortened]... and the flooding begins. Nary a mention of any intercession of any kind on behalf of the damned.

"If someone can find the preaching part in some other biblical passage, then let's hear chapter and verse." BigDoggProblem

"God... did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly" (2 Peter 2:4-5) Note: Genesis 5:32 indicates that Noah lived five hundred years before the birth of his three sons and the eventual ark construction. BigDogg, I hope this information is helpful.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'd also point out that when God deals with nations the people will suffer due the sins of the leadership. It doesn't mean that the people are guilty of their leaders sins, but they are a part of each leaders universe. The sins of the world was great in God's eyes, He acted as He saw fit.

What is the Christian moral lesson that humans who are "not guilty of their leaders' sins" can learn from this?

Originally posted by divegeester
Rom 8:30
Eph 1:11

I am currently one who holds to the absolute authority and sovereignty of God, meaning that I chose to accept the scriptures relating to predestination at face value. Many Christians here won't agree with this view, some extremely so as predestination seems to imply the exclusion of free will.

I also hold to the strategy that in ...[text shortened]... ld possibly fit within it? Is this an early example of predestination?

Thoughts and opinions.

you are forcing predestination where there is none.

no, there was no predestination with noah, (and i don't believe in predestination, btw) just a story that supposedly portrays god's awesome power and mercy (no, really!!) to sheeple. to modern humans, it is genocide, straight up, no ice, no tonic.

Originally posted by FMF
What is the Christian moral lesson that humans who are "not guilty of their leaders' sins" can learn from this?

Don't follow an immoral leader.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you are forcing predestination where there is none.

no, there was no predestination with noah, (and i don't believe in predestination, btw) just a story that supposedly portrays god's awesome power and mercy (no, really!!) to sheeple. to modern humans, it is genocide, straight up, no ice, no tonic.

Sometime genocide is the best medicine.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Sometime genocide is the best medicine.

What, exactly, is mass killing the best medicine for?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
What, exactly, is mass killing the best medicine for?

Mad cow disease?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you are forcing predestination where there is none.

no, there was no predestination with noah, (and i don't believe in predestination, btw) just a story that supposedly portrays god's awesome power and mercy (no, really!!) to sheeple. to modern humans, it is genocide, straight up, no ice, no tonic.

If you don't accept predestination, how do you account for the 2 scriptures in the OP?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Sometime genocide is the best medicine.

Really? How did the drowned benefit from the "medicine"?

Originally posted by divegeester
Now with predestination, let's consider Noak's ark. God was very explicit with the dimensions of the ark, but why was it so small when there was many more people being preached to by Noah than could possibly fit within it? Is this an early example of predestination?

Thoughts and opinions.

The question then is if God knew that nobody but Noah's family would be on the ark, why then bother with the preaching? It seems to me it would have to be an attempt at removing responsibility from God.
You push someone overboard. You throw him a life ring, knowing full well that he will not grab it. But then you can blame him for choosing not to grab it.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The question then is if God knew that nobody but Noah's family would be on the ark, why then bother with the preaching? It seems to me it would have to be an attempt at removing responsibility from God.
You push someone overboard. You throw him a life ring, knowing full well that he will not grab it. But then you can blame him for choosing not to grab it.

There is a fair challenge from bigdogproblem that there was no preaching and to be pragmatic, despite Noah being described as a preacher, I doubt he would have had much time with just him and his boys to make that boat. I can't imagine someone helping to build it and then not getting on board.

Furthermore the bible indicated that the flood was global, so how would Noah be able to preach to the globe while building his boat, and if there were no other humans outside of the local area then why a global flood.

Furthermore:

Romans 9:21
…21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,…

Sounds very pre-planned to me.

And again:

Proverbs 16:4
4The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.

These are big statements pertaining to the nature of predestination.

RJHinds, base on your comment above, I'd be interested in your view of these scriptures?