Originally posted by dj2beckerJohn 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[b] Hey, Mr. 20 years old and thinks he's gonna be one of God's few Chosen, you wouldn't know truth if it hit you in your air head with a sledgehammer.
Matthew 9:13 - But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
We are all sinners. Therefore we ...[text shortened]... aith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. [/b]
and Matthew 25 tells how
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Originally posted by frogstompJohn 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
and Matthew 25 tells how
So by reading Matthew 25 we can conclude that they that entered the kingdom of Heaven were born again.
Here's my take on free will:
Suppose you're in a canteen, and you're about to choose what you're having for lunch. For the sake of argument, there are only two choices, moussaka and goulash. Let's say you choose moussaka. No-one is forcing you to make this choice, so we can say you do it freely.
Now let's suppose we can play the scene again. Same canteen, same choice, same you (including memories, mood etc). In a deterministic world, you're going to choose moussaka again. Does that mean you've been forced into choosing moussaka? No, once again, you've made a free choice; it's just that your decision happens to be the same as before. Indeed, no matter how many times we repeat this experiment, your choice will always be the same.
Compatibilists see no problem with this interpretation, but others say it denies free will. So let's say sometimes you would have chosen goulash, say half of the time. We've now moved from a deterministic to a random universe.
Now if we run the experiment once, you might choose moussaka, you might choose goulash. No-one can predict which you're going to choose. But if we run the experiment enough times, a pattern will emerge: about half the time you'll choose one and the rest of the time you'll choose the other. This pattern will emerge come what may.
It ought to be clear that this doesn't really address the issue of free will. Your actions are at one level unpredictable, but at another there's still an inevitable pattern. We can generalise probability distributions to some looser structure, but ultimately it doesn't address the fact that your choices are inevitably structured.
But what happens if there is no structure? Now we're in an arbitrary universe; you do things on a whim, and there is no pattern to your whims. If we repeat the experiment, any pattern that emerges will be purely coincidental. Some would say this is the only world in which our will is truly free.
But consider what an arbitrary world means: it's not the same as a random world, as even randomness has a distribution. An arbitrary world is a world without structure, logic or sense. Things happen 'just because', for no reason at all. Understanding any part of the universe gives no insight into the rest of it. Experience and experiments are meaningless. In short, it's just a great big mess. I don't think proponents of non-compatibilist free will would find that too appealing a concept.
Originally posted by dj2beckerno no no no
John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
So by reading Matthew 25 we can conclude that they that entered the kingdom of Heaven were born again.
Matthew 25 is telling you how to be born again.
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Originally posted by frogstompMatthew 18:8 - Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
read it until you understand it.
Read it until you understand it.
John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Read it until you understand it.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Read it until you understand it.
John 6:40 - And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Read it until you understand it.
John 6:47 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life
Read it until you understand it.
Matthew 5:20 - For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Read it until you understand it.
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Read it until you understand it.
Matthew 18:3 - And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Read it until you understand it.
Originally posted by dj2beckerLMFAO! It amazes me that you can take a passage that has a clear meaning AND then give it a absolutely contradictory one! Jesus divides people into two groups: the righteous, who has not come to call (according to the passage) and sinners who he is calling for repentance. And what is your interpretation? "We are all sinners"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Learn how to read, fool.
[b] Hey, Mr. 20 years old and thinks he's gonna be one of God's few Chosen, you wouldn't know truth if it hit you in your air head with a sledgehammer.
Matthew 9:13 - But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
We are all sinners. Therefore we ...[text shortened]... aith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. [/b]
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Originally posted by no1marauderI think you posted on the wrong thread. Try the "Insulting Christians" one😉
LMFAO! It amazes me that you can take a passage that has a clear meaning AND then give it a absolutely contradictory one! Jesus divides people into two groups: the righteous, who has not come to call (according to the passage) ...[text shortened]... ion? "We are all sinners"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Learn how to read, fool.
Originally posted by dj2beckerLMFAO! Matthew 25 is clear in and of itself and mentions not one word about being "born again". "Born again" is a mistranslation anyway as people have pointed out many times here. What we can conclude from Matthew 25 is that those who perform acts of mercy and charity to their fellow man on Earth will have eternal salvation and those that do not, not matter how much they claim to be "born again", will not. And we can conclude that because that is what it says.
John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
So by reading Matthew 25 we can conclude that they that entered the kingdom of Heaven were born again.
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Originally posted by no1marauderDoes the entire Bible comprise out of Matthew 25? No. So in my previous post I posted another piece of scripture which clarifies Matthew 25:
LMFAO! Matthew 25 is clear in and of itself and mentions not one word about being "born again". "Born again" is a mistranslation anyway as people have pointed out many times here. What we can conclude from Matthew 25 is that those who perform acts of mercy and charity to their fellow man on Earth will have eternal salvation and those that do not, not ...[text shortened]... hey claim to be "born again", will not. And we can conclude that because that is what it says.
Matthew 9:13 - But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
I was refering to Matthew 9:13 when I said "We are all sinners. Therefore we are all chosen. But the choice has to be mutual."
In other words, I was saying that Christ came to save the sinners. I also said that we are all sinners. Thus Christ came to save all of us. In that way we are all chosen. I still cannot see what upset you. But in any case, what do you have to say about these words that were spoken by Christ when he was refering to the kingdom of Heaven:
Matthew 18:8 - Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:40 - And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life
Matthew 5:20 - For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 18:3 - And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Originally posted by dj2beckerTis a pity that by the time John was written the Paulinization of the word had already been done.
Does the entire Bible comprise out of Matthew 25? No. So in my previous post I posted another piece of scripture which clarifies Matthew 25:
Matthew 9:13 - But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
I was refering to Matthew 9:13 when I said "We ar ...[text shortened]... rted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.