- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
Originally posted by frogstompTis a pity you don't know what you are talking about...
Tis a pity that by the time John was written the Paulinization of the word had already been done.
You always change the subject when you are cornered? Whenever a you are cornered by a verse in the Bible you question its validity. One question: why then do you claim that Matthew 25 is the truth?
Originally posted by dj2beckerSometimes it's pearls before swine. Don't expect little demons to give anything of the Bible a fair examination.
Tis a pity you don't know what you are talking about...
You always change the subject when you are cornered? Whenever a you are cornered by a verse in the Bible you question its validity. One question: why then do you claim that Matthew 25 is the truth?
Originally posted by dj2beckerYou think that cornered anything . the John quotes can in no way alter mathew 25 : and Matthew 25 is specific , there really isnt any guess work ,, just read it.
Tis a pity you don't know what you are talking about...
You always change the subject when you are cornered? Whenever a you are cornered by a verse in the Bible you question its validity. One question: why then do you claim that Matthew 25 is the truth?
Btw don't try and be an imitation Coletti it only make you look bad.
Originally posted by dj2beckerMark 16:
Does the entire Bible comprise out of Matthew 25? No. So in my previous post I posted another piece of scripture which clarifies Matthew 25:
Matthew 9:13 - But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
I was refering to Matthew 9:13 when I said "We ar ...[text shortened]... rted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
be more careful in with the words as they have special meanings
you say you're a believer don't you? can you do those things that a believer can?
and try to understand them instead of looking for some special dispensation" of grace (another word Christ didnt use)
I thought I'd interject another perspective since I haven't seen much of a median in the comments thus far. My thoughts on predestination are somewhat aside from my personal beliefs on whether or not God really does forecast some to go to hell, while others were selected specifically to be with Him. I figured it would at least be fun for discussion and would at the very least lighten the conversation away from the casting of demons.
The first information we need is "Why does it matter?" I've included what I believe to be the most popular answers. Please feel free to add others if you'd like.
- 1 - It determines whether it's necessary to try to be right (er... in good standings) with God.
The simple answer is in Matt. 6. I'm sure there's a more specific one, but this is my personal reasoning. Jesus says "So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. fBut seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." Whether necessary to try or no, I have personal reasons to believe it's still a good idea.
- 2 - It determines if there's any point to "convert" others to "the faith." (I'm feeling motivated, aren't you?)
A little more interesting. Jesus did in fact say to "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Even Paul admitted being unable to do what is right. But there is little other evidence that could be construed or bent to imply inaction. Most (?) would agree that the example given by Jesus in both word and action that the "good news" should be told to all men. (There is much more discussion about what said "good news" is and what methods are deemed a reasonable "telling", but that's for another thread.)
The second bit is on what's not covered. Perhaps there is no earthly control at all. By all means, my posting this message may be ordained by God as a feeble attempt at doing nothing but what I will do anyway, persuading or dissuading you to do or don't do whatever it is that I was ordained to post this for... God only knows!
It's slightly reminiscent of the little that I learned about chaos theory. Chaos theory is great simply because of how unpredictable it is. (pardon the bad humor) The thing is, chaos is not chaos because it's random. By all means, it's always unpredictable in a very normal and ordered manor. There must be a pattern, but we are simply unable to understand, measure, predict, or perhaps even detect what causes the randomness.
At the risk of being accused of Paulinization, Jesus noted something similar to this to Nicodemus in John 3. "We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man." Jesus especially shot down the Sadducees for speculating about things that they couldn't possibly know.
In this, I've adopted the policy that it doesn't matter. Some things are vague, or simply lost to time and culture. But what is best is clearly defined, and I will strive to do this, predestined or not.
Originally posted by oneinmyselfGets my rec. 🙂
I thought I'd interject another perspective since I haven't seen much of a median in the comments thus far. My thoughts on predestination are somewhat aside from my personal beliefs on whether or not God really does forecast some to go to hell, while others were selected specifically to be with Him. I figured it would at least be fun for discussion a ...[text shortened]... culture. But what is best is clearly defined, and I will strive to do this, predestined or not.
Originally posted by oneinmyselfAnd if Christ spoke of quanta , Lie groups and superstrings would they have understood ?
I thought I'd interject another perspective since I haven't seen much of a median in the comments thus far. My thoughts on predestination are somewhat aside from my personal beliefs on whether or not God really does forecast some to go to hell, while others were selected specifically to be with Him. I figured it would at least be fun for discussion a ...[text shortened]... culture. But what is best is clearly defined, and I will strive to do this, predestined or not.
Originally posted by dj2beckerLook I know you're incapable of independent thought, but actually READ Matthew 9:13. "for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." There are two distinct groups: the righteous and the sinners. But what do you say over and over again? "I also said that we are all sinners"; in other words what you are saying DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS THE PASSAGE YOU GAVE. Again Jesus said there are the righteous and there are the sinners, so therefore, some people are righteous and are not sinners, so (according to Jesus) all are not sinners. Do you understand now?
Does the entire Bible comprise out of Matthew 25? No. So in my previous post I posted another piece of scripture which clarifies Matthew 25:
Matthew 9:13 - But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: fo ...[text shortened]... ldren, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
None of your other passages change or modify Matthew 25; Jesus said in Matthew 25 how you must show your faith: through acts of mercy and charity towards your fellow man. If you don't do that, you are NOT gonna make it; Matthew 5:20 is saying just that. I suggest you try to do some thinking of your own rather than merely digesting crib notes written by fundies.
Originally posted by frogstompWasn't that what I just asked? 🙂
And if Christ spoke of quanta , Lie groups and superstrings would they have understood ?
Eh... perhaps not. The more likely question would be if I spoke of what I've done once I'm dead, would anyone understand? I think I would be more certifiably a liar (or nuts, which I won't try to convince anyone of otherwise anyway). But the argument is fair enough.
Originally posted by oneinmyselfI thought is was 🙂
Wasn't that what I just asked? 🙂
Eh... perhaps not. The more likely question would be if I spoke of what I've done once I'm dead, would anyone understand? I think I would be more certifiably a liar (or nuts, which I won't try ...[text shortened]... nce anyone of otherwise anyway). But the argument is fair enough.
wasn't sure though.
another question I have is:
Would God need to create an Intelligent Designer to make things work, or is everything a part of God and manifests itself the way a manifold is instantiated by the limits of the links between the knots?
Originally posted by dj2beckerMaybe the person who chooses only chooses those who choose the enter the door.
Someone once explained it like this. You see a door in front of you. On the door is written: "All are welcome". You enter the door. On the back of the door that you have entered it is written: "You have been chosen."
Any thoughts?
Originally posted by frogstompHmmm... That kind of feels like the same question, but the way it's asked is just too cool. Perhaps someone more learned and prepared than I should start a new thread for this. Maybe "The nature of a created universe."
I thought is was 🙂
wasn't sure though.
another question I have is:
Would God need to create an Intelligent Designer to make things work, or is everything a part of God and manifests itself the way a manifold is instantiated by the limits of the links between the knots?
But let's talk about knots for a minute. Knot theory, just like its' little brother, metrics, is a fundamental to be sure. There is very little argument about why it is because it simply is. You can prove it. It is built on what we can observe. This sort of demonstrates why we can't make the comparison to begin with. Suppose everything is part of God and manifests itself according to whatever rules were defined at the beginning of time? In the same thought that we assert this idea, we observe the facts with what? Well, my initial thought is that we create a device to detect that God confines the universe. But wait a minute- by what means was this device created?
That train of thought could go on for a while. The first part is more complicated. You see, if I am created as an intelligent designer, then I'm not really the person to ask about what God needs to do in order to accomplish anything at all. So let's just say that what has been will be again, and what has been done will be done again. There is nothing new.
Either way, the point is the same. If we are a part of the manifold, there is no way for us to know. If we were created to be independent, we have been given guidelines on which to base our decisions that will lead to a life more fulfilling than we can imagine. I assume that they are my decisions not because I have proof of independent thought, but only because if they are not, it really won't make a difference, will it?
Remember that God does not want your money; He does not want you to go to church; He does not want you to be good, nor does he desire to control you. What He wants is you.