Originally posted by LemonJelloNow that is a question worth exploring. Certainly better than playing "My Assumptions Are Better Than Your Assumtions."
probably. but most people think that some assumptions are just plain wrong.
sometimes i wonder what Occam's razor would say about faith in general.
I don’t think the parable originally presented necessarily has anything to do with determinism or predestination, though those can certainly be read into it (and so could certainly be a question raised from it). This is a parable made for reading a lot of things into it—and seeing what comes back at ya. The first time I saw this, I think it was either in a Sufi or a Hindu context, not a Christian one (and it wasn’t a door, but a sign by a path that opened up—but no matter).
The questions across religions (and within different interpretations in a Christian context) seem to be, fundamentally, what/who is the “door” and when and how one chooses whether or not to enter. In the Christian context, C.S. Lewis’ The Great Divorce comes to mind, and might be a helpful read in pondering this parable.
I think this parable can also yield different understandings for a given individual at different points in their life’s journey. I like it. I think I’ll let it percolate for awhile.
Originally posted by thesonofsaulIt depends on what you mean by Bible. If you mean a particular text, translation, etc, or material book - then no, I disagree. But in a sense you would be correct. The Word, the revealed precepts of God, the propositions that make up the Bible - is inextricable bound to God himself. To love the Word of God, is to love God.
Are you agreeing with me that Christians are Bible worshippers?
Originally posted by ColettiThis is where we must disagree then. I cannot believe that any creation of man can be inextricably bound to God, nor can any language of man truly express anything of the mind of God and must be limited to man's expressions of the concept of God. But this is a matter for another thread, and probably has been in the past. Several times.
It depends on what you mean by Bible. If you mean a particular text, translation, etc, or material book - then no, I disagree. But in a sense you would be correct. The Word, the revealed precepts of God, the propositions that make up the Bible - is inextricable bound to God himself. To love the Word of God, is to love God.
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Originally posted by LemonJelloGive me the reason you seem to think I have not covered my points
ok. i hope i haven't offended you, and i hope you will debate me again in the future.
i give lectures often, and i find that sometimes i give lectures that i think go swimmingly only to find out that no one in the audience had any idea what i was saying. admittedly, i don't always state my arguments clearly.
well. It started to appear to me you were just attempting to ask the
same question over and over to get me to go on and on after I have
already answered the question just a few post before.
Kelly
Originally posted by dj2beckerCuz if you're the one who chooses (the "chooser"😉 than you haven't been chosen (by the "choosee"😉.
Why would it be false to say that you have been chosen because you chose the right door?
What makes you think that the criteria for "you are chosen" does not depend on whether you choose the right door?
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Originally posted by no1marauderIf it were a gibberish alert would you not have ignored it?
GIBBERISH ALERT!!
Now it seems like you bring new meaning to the phrase, "The truth hurts".
I did not mean to offend you. I am afraid you just re-comfirm that the TRUTH offends. If so, I could not help it. No insults shall prevail against the truth.
Galatians 4:16 - Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Originally posted by dj2beckerHey, Mr. 20 years old and thinks he's gonna be one of God's few Chosen, you wouldn't know truth if it hit you in your air head with a sledgehammer. Now go back to cutting and pasting something about how the Big Bang theory is part of Evolution.🙄🙄
If it were a gibberish alert would you not have ignored it?
Now it seems like you bring new meaning to the phrase, "The truth hurts".
I did not mean to offend you. I am afraid you just re-comfirm that the TRUTH offends. If so, I could not help it. No insults shall prevail against the truth.
Galatians 4:16 - Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
And if you're going to quote Scripture to me, make it something your supposed God said, not his petty minions.
If anyone despises or rejects this love he chooses not to be chosen.
This saying has some merit in it if meant in a specific context. For example, if we assume this "love" to be formless, and universal, or the essence of goodness, etc. But if you assume this "love" to mean a particular doctrine, or the interpretation of a God as described in a doctrine and moreoever, a God who condemns those who have never even heard of his form or name as described by that doctrine, then the saying is basically meaningless, and potentially manipulative.
By the way, I'd say that no one really "despises" love, they fear it. And for good reason, as more people have been killed over so-called "love" than all other emotions combined. The "love" for a spouse who betrays, the "love" of a nation, the "love" of a religion, the "love" of an ideal or a race, even the "love" of God have been at the heart of most crimes, whether personal or national, throughout history. Of course this "love" is really more just attachment, but for human beings love and attachment are often impossible to distinguish.
I'd say that love is a function of truth, but not the other way around. In other words, truth and the search for truth needs to be prioritized. The search for love, even the love of God, usually ends in pain and illusion because it's based on the assumption that separation is real, and that our very nature is inherently lacking in love.
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Originally posted by no1marauderHey, Mr. 20 years old and thinks he's gonna be one of God's few Chosen, you wouldn't know truth if it hit you in your air head with a sledgehammer.
Hey, Mr. 20 years old and thinks he's gonna be one of God's few Chosen, you wouldn't know truth if it hit you in your air head with a sledgehammer. Now go back to cutting and pasting something about how the Big Bang theory is part of Evolution.🙄🙄
And if you're going to quote Scripture to me, make it something your supposed God said, not his petty minions.
Matthew 9:13 - But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
We are all sinners. Therefore we are all chosen. But the choice has to be mutual.
John 8:32 - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
And if you're going to quote Scripture to me, make it something your supposed God said, not his petty minions.
John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.