17 Apr 14
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"The Makropulos Case: Reflections on the Tedium of Immortality"
"This essay started life as a lecture in a series ‘on the immortality of the soul or kindred spiritual subject’. My kindred spiritual subject is, one might say, the mortality of the soul. [i]Those among previous lecturers who were philosophers tended, I think, to discuss the quest ...[text shortened]... is excerpt accurately present the topic you're considering for a "worthwhile discussion" thread?
LemonJello, does this excerpt accurately present the topic you're considering for a "worthwhile discussion" thread?
The topic that I said would be worthwhile is that of the desirability (or lack thereof) of immortality. I mentioned that Bernard William's essay would provide good food for thought regarding this topic. The excerpt you posted is simply a portion of the first paragraph of his essay. I have found a link where you can access the full essay:
http://www.caseybdoyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Williams-Makropulos.pdf
Additionally, the Smuts essay I mentioned can be downloaded from this page (just search the page for "Immortality and Significance" ):
https://sites.google.com/site/asmuts/research/download-papers
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17 Apr 14
Originally posted by LemonJelloI would add that living for eternity is indeed extremely undesirable.LemonJello, does this excerpt accurately present the topic you're considering for a "worthwhile discussion" thread?
The topic that I said would be worthwhile is that of the desirability (or lack thereof) of immortality. I mentioned that Bernard William's essay would provide good food for thought regarding this topic. The excerpt you po ...[text shortened]... mmortality and Significance" ):
https://sites.google.com/site/asmuts/research/download-papers
Biological immortality [ie immunity from disease and ageing] is extremely desirable.
17 Apr 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYes, as a gentleman, I strive to stand by my word and also put trust in the word of others, commensurate with my evidence that they represent a reliable source of testimony. However, the completely obvious point that you somehow fail to grasp is that I do not think God exists in the first place. By extension, I do not think He exists as a source of testimony, reliable or otherwise.
twhitehead, LemonJello, googlefudge, Penguin and Fabian Fnas: On earth we've coined the phrases "You have my word";
"A gentleman's agreement"; "A man's word is his bond" and others over the centuries based on one human being's trust in another. Yet when Sovereign, Immutable God says: "Here's the absolute truth. Believe it. I have no reason to ever dec ...[text shortened]... d we remain patient and long suffering and slow to anger in the face of such arrogance? He does.
Is it "such arrogance" on your part that you ignore other putatively divinely inspired accounts besides your cherished biblical accounts?
17 Apr 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThis is so stupid.
twhitehead, LemonJello, googlefudge, Penguin and Fabian Fnas: On earth we've coined the phrases "You have my word";
"A gentleman's agreement"; "A man's word is his bond" and others over the centuries based on one human being's trust in another. Yet when Sovereign, Immutable God says: "Here's the absolute truth. Believe it. I have no reason to ever dec ...[text shortened]... d we remain patient and long suffering and slow to anger in the face of such arrogance? He does.
Do you seriously not get that "God" has not spoken to us skeptics? And maybe, that's a big reason why we are skeptical?
There's no arrogance involved. Not one iota. We have to know that a god exists before we can have any kind of serious reaction (acceptance OR rejection) to claims involving that god.
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17 Apr 14
Originally posted by SwissGambitWe could also point out the inherent anachronism built into "a Gentleman's word is his bond";
This is so stupid.
Do you seriously not get that "God" has not spoken to us skeptics? And maybe, that's a big reason why we are skeptical?
There's no arrogance involved. Not one iota. We have to know that a god exists before we can have any kind of serious reaction (acceptance OR rejection) to claims involving that god.
and "a man's word"...
Are women not capable of being trustworthy?
You are not getting off to a good start when you are relying on turns of phrase so
evidently out of date.
17 Apr 14
Originally posted by googlefudgeI plan to start a separate thread on this issue when I get a chance. Should be a very interesting discussion.
I would add that living for eternity is indeed extremely undesirable.
Biological immortality [ie immunity from disease and ageing] is extremely desirable.
In the past on this forum we had some organized debates with established ground rules and appointed judges, etc. (I recall one between sonship (jaywill at the time) and rwingett on the topic of whether or not Jesus was a socialist.) I think if we were to revive this again, this would be a worthy topic, with one participant to argue for the desirability of immortality, whereas his opponent argues for the opposite position.
17 Apr 14
Originally posted by LemonJelloA favourite quote from fiction on this topic:
I plan to start a separate thread on this issue when I get a chance. Should be a very interesting discussion.
In the past on this forum we had some organized debates with established ground rules and appointed judges, etc. (I recall one between sonship (jaywill at the time) and rwingett on the topic of whether or not Jesus was a socialist.) I think ...[text shortened]... rgue for the desirability of immortality, whereas his opponent argues for the opposite position.
"To die, to be really dead...that must be glorious.
From Bram Stoker's Dracula.
17 Apr 14
Originally posted by divegeesterI like this quote from Susan Ertz:
A favourite quote from fiction on this topic:
"To die, to be really dead...that must be glorious.
From Bram Stoker's Dracula.
"Millions long for immortality, who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
17 Apr 14
Originally posted by LemonJelloIt's an interesting topic and yes I think you should offer the challenge, but along side there should be a commentary thread for the back and forth banter.
I like this quote from Susan Ertz:
"Millions long for immortality, who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
17 Apr 14
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." (Romans 1:22)
Q. Today is Tuesday, April 15, 2014. On this day on Red Hot Pawn's Spirituality Forum,
what decision have you made regarding your permanent address for eternity?
________________________________________________________
Biological life in the womb depends entirely on the mother. Soul life is dependent entirely on God. A newborn infant draws its first breath when God imparts soul life which combines with biological life: this is how human life begins. When the soul departs the body, physical death occurs. Biological life returns to dust; soul life returns to God who gave it for disposition.
_______________________________________________________
twhitehead, LemonJello, googlefudge, Penguin and Fabian Fnas: On earth we've coined the phrases "You have my word";
"A gentleman's agreement"; "A man's word is his bond" and others over the centuries based on one human being's trust in another. Yet when Sovereign, Immutable God says: "Here's the absolute truth. Believe it. I have no reason to ever deceive you." human beings reply: "Nah". Nope". "Prove it". "I don't believe a word in the bible anymore than in unicorns." If anyone of us here were God would we remain patient and long suffering and slow to anger in the face of such arrogance? He does.
________________________________________________________
From the moment of birth each human being is destined for physical death and eternal separation from God. From the moment of the second birth John 1:12 "But as many as received Him [faith alone in Christ alone], to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name." you are destined to live for eternity with God. Once you have been given human life, the decision is yours: eternal condemnation or eternal life. Almighty God respects your volition.
Originally posted by googlefudgeYes, that's right. If you believe religiously that the Earth is flat as a pizza (as it is told in the bible), then scientific proofs doesn't mean anything. Like "God created Earth flat, but let it appear as spherical for the scientists, god can do that, you know, because he is allmighty."
But it's an empirically testable question.
What you are saying is equivalent [but not obviously so] to saying that ...
"the whole flat Earth vs Spherical-ish Earth thing is religious. Either you believe it,
or you don't."
The question as to whether or not people have a 'soul' or 'spirit' or whatever you want
to call it is an empirical testable ...[text shortened]...
They are wrong, as are people who believe that souls exist. [as anything other than a metaphor]
But about the soule, there are no proof that the soul exist, nor that it doesn't exist. Therefore it is a religious belief only. Nor can god's existance neither be proven, nor disproven. That's why it is a religion.
Anyone saying that the soul (or god) exists and that it is scientifically proven is wrong.
Anyone saying that the soul (or god) doesn't exist and that it is scientifically proven is equally wrong.
Why? Because science doesn't deal with supernatural phenomena. Like god or soul.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)Our essence as human beings is real but invisible It can only be defined by its characteristics: self consciousness, mentality, volition and conscience. Each human soul is the real person existing within a biologically living body. Although this invisible essence is inferior to God's perfect essence, the soul establishes man's superiority over all other creatures on earth. All of us have an identical essence of soul but each individual on this forum has a different personality reflecting the combinations of facets within his/her soul. When negative volition toward truth impacts mentality and conscience, an unstable maladjusted human personality emerges. Heredity and environment influence personality but volition ultimately plays the major role.
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." (Romans 1:22)
Q. Today is Tuesday, April 15, 2014. On this day on Red Hot Pawn's Spirituality Forum,
what decision have you made regarding your permanent address for eternity?
________________________________________________________
Biological life in the womb depends entire ...[text shortened]... e, the decision is yours: eternal condemnation or eternal life. Almighty God respects your volition.
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17 Apr 14
Originally posted by googlefudge
[b]We could also point out the inherent anachronism built into "a uote
Are women not capable of being trustworthy?
You are not getting off to a good start when you are relying on turns of phrase so
evidently out of date.
*** Applause ! ***
What is this, super politically correct Male Self Hatred Week ?