Originally posted by sonshipLike I said, they were forming a breakaway religion based on Jesus: a cult of personality. I have no particular reason to doubt he existed or that he was a charismatic Jewish preacher.
Just explain what you think the motive for imagining this Jesus character said them WAS to these mythmakers?
Originally posted by sonshipI do see the words. You cannot make me believe in your God figure by issuing threats about me being tortured in burning agony for eternity. You cannot make me believe in your God figure by stating that me not having the same beliefs as you "doesn't cut it" for you.
Shoving your head in the sand like an ostrich shouting " I don't see those words. I don't suscribe to them so they don't exist" doesn't cut it.
Originally posted by sonshipWow, that must be the shortest point you've ever made. I'm not accusing Jesus of anything. I just don't think that your conception of eternal hell-fire makes any sense. In the event that you are right and God does exist then the end of all things would represent perfection. Hell is the opposite of perfection so it can't persist.
I don't think a man like Jesus was given to delusion or lies or self deception.
There is an approvedness about His character that calls for me thinking His word is better than yours.
As great a bloke as you may be.
Originally posted by FMFSo this is another question you intend to avoid answering.
I do see the words. You cannot make me believe in your God figure by issuing threats about me being tortured in burning agony for eternity. You cannot make me believe in your God figure by stating that me not having the same beliefs as you "doesn't cut it" for you.
I am not making you believe in a God figure. I asked you what was the motive for those who fictionalized the man and created such words for Jesus.
You have the right to say Like 12:5 is the most horrible thought ever conceived by the human mind.
I asked you if the words are BOGUS what was the MOTIVE of those who conjured them up imaginatively and said to the world - "Jesus said this" ?
Originally posted by sonshipI have already answered it. Jesus wrote not a single word. After he died his followers formed a breakaway religion based on the personality of Jesus and the meaning and significance they invested in him. I have no particular reason to doubt he existed ~ contrary to your repeated disingenuous suggestion ~ nor do I doubt that he was a charismatic Jewish preacher and clearly the cult of personality centred on him flourished. Why did they write what they wrote? I could ask why do people leaving Benny Hinn meetings believe they saw miracles performed. The answer is human nature and religious fervour.
So this is another question you intend to avoid answering.
I am not making you believe in a God figure. I asked you what was the motive for those who fictionalized the man and created such words for Jesus.
You have the right to say Like 12:5 is the most horrible thought ever conceived by the human mind.
I asked you if the words are BOGUS what ...[text shortened]... e MOTIVE of those who conjured them up imaginatively and said to the world - "Jesus said this" ?
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFWhether you believe the things I do or not is nor relevant.
I don't believe the things you do so how can I "fear Him"?
You can answer that you fear God, whoever you believe God is, or you do not.
Open mindedness and being non-religious is one thing.
Groping around admitting that you don't know what they hell you believe is another.
If you are totally clueless about God just admit it.
If not to me, to yourself.
You don't have to believe I do or do not do what I wrote about.
These are flimsy tissues of excuses for hiding in a fog of non-committal ambiguity.
And we're suppose to be impressed how nonreligious, non sanctimonius you are. We're overwhelmed at such "free-thinking", I'll tell you.
Originally posted by sonshipI don't believe what you claim. No ambiguity about that. And, furthermore, there is no "fog of non-committal ambiguity" about my condemnation of the supposed moral content of your ideology regarding your notion of "eternal torture".
WYou don't have to believe I do or do not do what I wrote about.
These are flimsy tissues of excuses for hiding in a fog of non-committal ambiguity.
Originally posted by sonshipI have written literally hundreds and hundreds of posts, maybe thousands, about what I believe and you've never shown the slightest interest. When I say I find the ideology you espouse about "divine justice" and "perfect ghastliness" repulsive, I am not "groping around". I do not have to offer you an alternative religionist doctrine as I make observations on the moral depravity ~ eternal torture for thoughtcrimes ~ that lies at the very heart of your religionist doctrine.
Open mindedness and being non-religious is one thing.
Groping around admitting that you don't know what they hell you believe is another.
3 edits
Originally posted by FMFAfter Jesus DIED, His followers were scarred to death that they would be next to be nailed up by the Romans.
I have already answered it. Jesus wrote not a single word. After he died his followers formed a breakaway religion based on the personality of Jesus and the meaning and significance they invested in him. I have no particular reason to doubt he existed ~ contrary to your repeated disingenuous suggestion ~ nor do I doubt that he was a charismatic Jewish preacher a ...[text shortened]... meetings believe they saw miracles performed. The answer is human nature and religious fervour.
What changed them and made them willing to die for their message was that they believed (at least ) that Jesus rose from the dead.
Now if He never wrote anything and all we have are the FICTIONAL words invented for Him, what do you think their motive was for saying He taught God should be feared? And that because He possesses an authority and power which no human being or human institution possesses?
Did it win more friends for them?
Did it add to their financial fortunes?
Did it make them welcomed to their Jewish countrymen more?
Did it secure them a place in history which they craved?
History suggest the twelve (Judas's replacement) were all martyred except possibly John.
Paul is believed to have been beheaded.
Peter crucified.
What advantage was sought by reporting that Jesus spoke of a judgment which is beyond what mankind can do?
Originally posted by sonshipAfter Jesus DIED, His followers were scarred to death that they would be next to be nailed up by the Romans.
What changed them and made them willing to die for their message was that they believed (at least ) that Jesus rose from the dead.
Now if He never wrote anything and all we have are the FICTIONAL words invented for Him, what do you think their motive was for saying He taught God should be feared? And that because He possesses an authority and power which no human being or human institution possesses?
Did it win more friends for them?
Did it add to their financial fortunes?
Did it make them welcomed to their Jewish countrymen more?
Did it secure them a place in history which they craved?
History suggest the twelve (Judas' replacement) were all martyred except possibly John.
Paul is believed to have been beheaded.
Peter crucified.
What advantage was sought by reporting that Jesus spoke of a judgment which is beyond what mankind can do?
I have already answered this three times.