Originally posted by FMFThat's harder to believe then the Gospel.
A charismatic Jewish preacher. Human nature. Religious fervour.
Tell me about the human nature which has 500 witnesses believe at the same time they were spectators to a risen Jesus.
Group hallucination ?
What turned Saul of Tarsus from a vehement young rabbi breathing out threats to this new sect, into a writer of 13 of the 27 New Testament books?
Your conspiracy theory requires more blind faith than the evidence of 1rst Century history and the Gospel accounts.
Originally posted by sonshipI am aware of your beliefs.
That's harder to believe then the Gospel.
Why do people sincerely believe that Benny Hinn performs miracles. Why do they tell others and write about it on the internet? Why do so many people believe that Mohammad went up the mountain and conversed with God? Why do so many people believe what Dasa believes about reincarnation and the vedas?
Originally posted by sonshipPaul was a Roman citizen, only non-citizens and slaves were crucified, citizens were beheaded.
After Jesus DIED, His followers were scarred to death that they would be next to be nailed up by the Romans.
What changed them and made them willing to die for their message was that they believed (at least ) that Jesus rose from the dead.
Now if He never wrote anything and all we have are the FICTIONAL words invented for Him, what do you think the ...[text shortened]... tage was sought by reporting that Jesus spoke of a judgment which is beyond what mankind can do?
-Removed-Well stated, I agree wholeheartedly.
Someone will probably counter with the fact that like it or not, the words "Hell", "Forever and ever" are in the bible.
But I think they misinterpret those words and phrases, while ignoring phrases like Satan will be "brought to ashes", "perish" means living forever, etc.
The following is from ..
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/doesnt-the-bible-contain-some-false-and-even-harmful-teachings
A doctrine that is commonly taught but not in the Bible is that when an unsaved person dies, he goes to “Hell” and burns forever. That teaching, based on the misunderstanding of a few verses and the false doctrine of “the immortal soul,” a phrase never used in the Bible, has caused many people to doubt the love and mercy of God. The true biblical teaching is clear even in the most often quoted verse in the Bible, John 3:16. Although it is common to hear John 3:16 quoted, and it often appears on banners that are hung over the railings at professional football games, the truth it sets forth is not well known.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
God offers every person a choice between two things: everlasting life and everlasting death. We can live forever or we can “perish.” Not burn forever—perish, that is, come to an end, be completely destroyed. Romans 6:23 tells us the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is everlasting life. The choice is death or life. This choice between life and death is set before people in verses throughout the entire Bible. There is not one verse that says the choice is everlasting life or everlasting torment. “Eternal torment” is not in the Bible, it does not fit with what we know about God, and it does not make sense. All through the Bible, God is the God of justice, and in the civil laws in Exodus through Deuteronomy, God commands that the punishment always fits the crime. There is no “overkill” in the justice of God: the punishment is always appropriate. But that would certainly not be the case if unbelievers burned forever. What crime could a human possibly commit in a lifetime that the just and fitting punishment would be burning forever? The lake of fire is specifically called “the second death” (Rev. 20:14) because the unsaved people who are thrown into it burn up and die. [5]
Our Choice
Everlasting Life
(John 3:16)
Everlasting Death
(Rev. 20:14)
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-Removed-His 'style' has been honed from long practice of talking to naysayers wishing to chop down every tree he plants. I find his 'style' to be carefully laying a foundation and then building on that. Yes, some people do not have the patience for that and so next they criticize the way he posts because they cannot criticize the veracity of it.
I have no problem with his 'style'. Despite his spelling errors, I find his posts to be considerably more educated than most posts and most posters here who are firmly dedicated to the 'sound byte' way of presenting their views. Some posters put so little effort into their posts that I'm often left wondering exactly what it is they meant to say.
Originally posted by SuzianneWhile I respect the 'academic rigour' sonship applies to some of his posts, in others he does lay down a lot of white phosphorous text to disguise the fact that he is not really addressing the point he's been confronted with or that he is packing his responses with all manner of straw men and red herrings, or to give himself the passive aggressive cop-out where he sneers about someone having not 'addressed all the points' in his voluminous, monologular, and often adjacent-to-the-matter-in-hand screeds.
His 'style' has been honed from long practice of talking to naysayers wishing to chop down every tree he plants. I find his 'style' to be carefully laying a foundation and then building on that. Yes, some people do not have the patience for that and so next they criticize the way he posts because they cannot criticize the veracity of it.
I have ...[text shortened]... ttle effort into their posts that I'm often left wondering exactly what it is they meant to say.
Originally posted by SuzianneI agree, He has sound thinking except in a few areas. I admire his conviction.
His 'style' has been honed from long practice of talking to naysayers wishing to chop down every tree he plants. I find his 'style' to be carefully laying a foundation and then building on that. Yes, some people do not have the patience for that and so next they criticize the way he posts because they cannot criticize the veracity of it.
I have ...[text shortened]... ttle effort into their posts that I'm often left wondering exactly what it is they meant to say.
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-Removed-I don't think this is what God has communicated to man in His Word.
To be cursed forever God regards the person as entirely vile, worthless, hateful, beyond recovery, wicked.
The cursed one is shut off from good, shut up to evil of every kind, devoted to vengeance, and deserving of full divine wrath and hatred.
But in Deut 28:14-26 the curse is pronounced upon the person and not upon his special acts. While there is hope, there is measured punishment with a remedial aim.
The measured punishement of God is seen both in Old and New Testaments. The Israelite was not to be stricken more than forty times. Otherwise he would seem "vile" - "lest thy brother seem vile to the" (Deut. 25:3) .
Measured punishment meant there was still hope of recovery.
But when the curse is pronounced he is beyond recovery.
The ultimate and eternal pure goodness of God decrees that there is a point of the sinner being beyond recovery.
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How we come to Jesus Christ does not matter. That we come to Jesus Christ is what matters.
Rightly or wrongly, if a person gives their life over to Jesus because of the fear of this or that, it doesn't matter. He is willing to receive you.
If a person is scared of eternal fire and because of that says "Lord Jesus, please save me from eternal fire" that is not to be held in contempt in the least. I knew a young person who met Jesus because she was afraid that the Sky Lab Satellite was going to fall out of space on her.
She began her life with Jesus Christ because of a prayer to be saved from falling space debris. While some people may jeer at this Christ receives us just as we are.
Jesus Christ is a seed life planted in the heart of the believer. He will grow and spread to every area of the personality. If you started with Him because of fear of damnation that does not mean your Christian life will consist of nothing else.
Anyway, there is no need to beg God to save us. It is a simple matter of accepting His offer to do so with thanksgiving. God is not interested in our groveling and begging. He is interested that we BELIEVE.
IE. "Lord Jesus, I believe your word that he who comes to you You will by no means cast out. Thankyou Lord Jesus for your redeeming death and victorious resurrection that I could be saved. Thankyou Lord for such a gift. I believe. I receive."
The bottom line of this post is that it does not matter for what REASON you come to Jesus the Savior. What is important is that you DO come to Jesus the Savior. And He will grow in all areas of your soul.