Originally posted by sonshipBeing tortured in burning agony for eternity is an absolutely demented and morally depraved form of wrath and revenge. It is the most evil notion that the human imagination has ever dredged up. Luckily it is just some stuff that people like you think is true having read a book.
Fail. Moving on to torture.
them being tortured in burning agony for eternity.
Do you think a criminal who is confined to prison is unrighteous of the criminal system if he complains that it is agonizing?
Yes or No how about ?
If he is warned as a potential offender that punishment he will find agonizing, is that unrighteo ...[text shortened]... im to obey the law? Whose fault is it that he is agonized when sentenced ?
He was warned.
You cannot make me believe in your God figure by issuing "threats" or "warnings" such as this. If it helps you greatly and carries a great benefit to your "present day Christian walk" to think about non-believers being tortured in burning agony for eternity, then your religious and moral ideas ~ "present day Christian walk"" ~ are quite simply repulsive.
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Originally posted by FMFYou're mixed up now and desperate.
There is no "mental block". In the midst of what you have said and what you clearly meant, your comment about prayer is neither here or there. In this respect, yours is a hideous ideology that I would never seek to emulate. The personalized nature of how it "helps you greatly" to think of people who do not obey "God's command to believe into Christ" being tortured in burning agony for eternity cannot be redeemed with "words" about prayer.
being tortured in burning agony for eternity cannot be redeemed with "words" about prayer.
? ?
Tell us about the "hideous ideology" of Jesus Christ.
Tell us about how "despicable" Jesus is compared to you.
I choose to believe what He taught - the comforting things AND the things which are dreadful.
Shouldn't we be objective and take all the words of the one we follow?
I believe in taking all His words.
I think you want to pretend there is nothing else to me in the Bible except eternal punishment. That's your problem.
Originally posted by sonshipI don't even support the death penalty so I certainly don't find anything moral or "perfect goodness" about a criminal facing being tortured in burning agony for eternity or even being threatened with torture in burning agony for eternity.
Do you think a criminal who is confined to prison is unrighteous of the criminal system if he complains that it is agonizing?
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Originally posted by sonshipIt's the ideology that you espouse which is that someone will be tortured in burning agony for eternity for not obeying God's command to believe in Christ. I have no "despicable" or "hideous" ideology that can be compared to this.
Tell us about the "hideous ideology" of Jesus Christ.
Tell us about how "despicable" Jesus is compared to you.
Originally posted by FMF
Being tortured in burning agony for eternity is an absolutely demented and morally depraved form of wrath and revenge. It is the most evil notion that the human imagination has ever dredged up. Luckily it is just some stuff that people like you think is true having read a book.
You cannot make me believe in your God figure by issuing "threats" or "warnings" s ...[text shortened]... hen your religious and moral ideas ~ "present day Christian walk"" ~ are quite simply repulsive.
Being tortured in burning agony for eternity is an absolutely demented and morally depraved form of wrath and revenge. It is the most evil notion that the human imagination has ever dredged up. Luckily it is just some stuff that people like you think is true having read a book.
So Christ is a product of human imagination ?
Tell me, what was the motive of those who imagined up the character of Jesus and placed imaginary words into His mouth.
Why did someone/s invent Jesus and put these words into His mouth -
Luke 12:5
English Standard Version
But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!
New American Standard Bible
"But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
What were these imaginative people trying to accomplish ?
You cannot make me believe in your God figure by issuing "threats" or "warnings" such as this.
If it is true it would be unrighteous of Him not to warn us.
If it is true that Satan will be punished forever and those who follow Satan will share to some degree in the same fate, then we would want God to warn us.
If it helps you greatly and carries a great benefit to your "present day Christian walk" to think about non-believers being tortured in burning agony for eternity, then your religious and moral ideas ~ "present day Christian walk"" ~ are quite simply repulsive.
It helps me to intercede in prayer for my enemies.
Why shouldn't I seek all the help I can get in my "present day Christian walk"?
The Gospel IS for my present day Christian walk.
What do you think it is for?
Do you think Peter and John sought for the approval of Judas Iscariot after he dropped out of being a disciple?
Why should I be concerned for your OK on how I seek help in my present day Christian walk?
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Originally posted by FMF
Being tortured in burning agony for eternity is an absolutely demented and morally depraved form of wrath and revenge. It is the most evil notion that the human imagination has ever dredged up. Luckily it is just some stuff that people like you think is true having read a book.
You cannot make me believe in your God figure by issuing "threats" or "warnings" s ...[text shortened]... hen your religious and moral ideas ~ "present day Christian walk"" ~ are quite simply repulsive.
Being tortured in burning agony for eternity is an absolutely demented and morally depraved form of wrath and revenge. It is the most evil notion that the human imagination has ever dredged up. Luckily it is just some stuff that people like you think is true having read a book.
So Christ is a product of human imagination ?
Tell me, what was the motive of those who imagined up the character of Jesus and placed imaginary words into His mouth?
Why did someone/s invent Jesus and put these words into His mouth? -
Luke 12:5
English Standard Version
But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!
New American Standard Bible
"But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
What were these imaginative people trying to accomplish ?
You cannot make me believe in your God figure by issuing "threats" or "warnings" such as this.
If it is true it would be unrighteous of Him not to warn us.
If it is true that Satan will be punished forever and those who follow Satan will share to some degree in the same fate, then we would want God to warn us.
If it helps you greatly and carries a great benefit to your "present day Christian walk" to think about non-believers being tortured in burning agony for eternity, then your religious and moral ideas ~ "present day Christian walk"" ~ are quite simply repulsive.
Why shouldn't I seek all the help I can get in my "present day Christian walk"?
The Gospel IS for my present day Christian walk.
What do you think it is for?
Originally posted by sonshipThey were forming a breakaway religion based on Jesus: a cult of personality. I have no particular reason to doubt he existed or that he was a charismatic Jewish preacher.
Tell me, what was the motive of those who imagined up the character of Jesus and placed imaginary words into His mouth.
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Originally posted by FMFSo who imaginatively concocted this person Jesus of Nazareth which you do not subscribe to ? And what was the motive they had for putting into His mouth imaginary words that you do not subscribe to, as follows -
I don't subscribe to the claims you and other Christians make about him and your God figure. I thought this was clear to you.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
But I will show you the One to fear: Fear Him who has authority to throw people into hell after death. Yes, I say to you, this is the One to fear!
Shoving your head in the sand like an ostrich shouting " I don't see those words. I don't suscribe to them so they don't exist" doesn't cut it.
The words have been there for 20 centuries.
You don't have to approve or subscribe.
Just explain what you think the motive for imagining this Jesus character said them WAS to these mythmakers?
Was it to get your money?
Was it to have power over women?
Was it to establish a world wide religion to terrify everyone?
Why THOSE words did they imagine and lie that Jesus spoke them?
Originally posted by FMFI think that most Christians don't believe in this. They are concerned for us as they believe we will die for eternity if we don't join in, but they don't glory in it the way these fundamentalists do. The entertaining thing about it all is that if the fundamentalists find out they are right, they'll find out they are wrong.
Being tortured in burning agony for eternity is an absolutely demented and morally depraved form of wrath and revenge. It is the most evil notion that the human imagination has ever dredged up. Luckily it is just some stuff that people like you think is true having read a book.
You cannot make me believe in your God figure by issuing "threats" or "warnings" s ...[text shortened]... hen your religious and moral ideas ~ "present day Christian walk"" ~ are quite simply repulsive.
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Originally posted by DeepThoughtI don't think a man like Jesus was given to delusion or lies or self deception.
I think that most Christians don't believe in this. They are concerned for us as they believe we will die for eternity if we don't join in, but they don't glory in it the way these fundamentalists do. The entertaining thing about it all is that if the fundamentalists find out they are right, they'll find out they are wrong.
There is an approvedness about His character that calls for me thinking His word is better than yours.
As great a bloke as you may be.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtYes. I am aware of this and it has been discussed. I am taking issue with sonship's framing of what he personally thinks is "moral" in terms of revenge and wrath and the inflicting of misery by a supposed supernatural being ~ and the same goes for other fundamentalists if they have the same notion ~ I don't assume that it is the same ideology for all Christians.
I think that most Christians don't believe in this.
Originally posted by sonship to DeepThoughtNo one is asking you to worship DeepThought so this is a false dilemma sonship.
I don't think a man like Jesus was given to delusion or lies or self deception.
There is an approvedness about His character that calls for me thinking His word is better than yours.
As great a bloke as you may be.